03-10-2004, 08:44 PM | #181 | |
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03-10-2004, 11:09 PM | #182 | |
The Dude
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03-10-2004, 11:12 PM | #183 |
Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller
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The whole Trinity ordeal... I sort of understand it as this:
God the Father is the mind God the Son (Jesus) is the body God the spirit would be... well... god's spirit... the presence of god's soul/ghost... ish.... is this a sort of accurate simplification?
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03-10-2004, 11:52 PM | #184 |
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The trinity: One God in three modes or forms (Not three individuals, rather three personal self-distinctions within a divine essence)
God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit The saving grace of the Son which gives us access to the love of the Father. Christ (the Son), is God manifested (made human) to be the total sacrifice for our sins. The Holy Spirit is the agent/medium of fellowship and communion (not as in bread and wine, rather togetherness).
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
03-11-2004, 02:32 AM | #185 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Its just that I've just about enough negative crap about The Passion of the Christ from people who havent even seen it, and I wasnt really in the best of moods yesterday. Of course I apologize for my bad behaviour, and swear never to get angry on this board again.
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03-11-2004, 02:50 AM | #186 | |
The Dude
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03-11-2004, 03:11 AM | #187 | |
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03-11-2004, 08:01 AM | #188 |
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First, I have not seen the movie.
Second, I do not want to see the movie because of the gore. Third, I think that it is crazy that the Christian faith is being marketed in the same way something like, LotR was (ya know…it’s a movie, they sell movie kitch, etc.) Fourth, I think that its sad how it takes a movie to get Christians excited about the passion of Christ. Fifth, I am a Christian. In terms of what is contained in the movie, I believe (this is from what I’ve read) that it is an accurate interpretation and all that of the Bible and the anti-semetic thing? How could you portray Jews crucifying someone without it looking like they are “bad guys”? It is history and I hope people realize that it is 2000 year old history, not post-modern like us.
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
03-13-2004, 02:26 AM | #189 | |
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03-13-2004, 03:03 AM | #190 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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03-14-2004, 09:50 PM | #191 | |
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Seriously, I think Val summed it up pretty good
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03-14-2004, 09:51 PM | #192 | |
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A part of the evidence that Jesus was crucified
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I don't understand why individuals are asking for evidence outside of the Bible. The gospels have all been dated to extremely close to Jesus' life time, and the epistles even closer. Some of the evidence for their validity can be given in a few points. 1) The epistles and gospels were written within the lifetimes of many of the people they speak of. By necessity, the gospel writers would have had to be very careful to stick to accurate information. Otherwise they would risk putting evidence against their claims in their enemies' hands. 2) The gospels contain accounts of some things that were at the time viewed as damaging to their own witness, though now they wouldn't be. They lack the legendary type qualities that reality becoming myth would have. Normally it is (I think) about four centuries before the legendary qualities enter into real history. That was the date when some of the Apocryphal books were written. One of them tells that Jesus came out of the tomb with all the Pharisees present, and he was so tall that his head touched the clouds. That's legend. The gospel accounts are recorded in a very sober manner. The first witnesses for the empty tomb included women, and the testimony of women was looked upon as worth nothing, at that time period. Those were some of the Biblical evidence pieces that came to mind immediately. The historian Josephus corroborated the evidence for Jesus. He wrote that he was a martyred leader of the church in Jerusalem, was a wise teacher who had established a wide and lasting following, and that he was crucified under Pilate at the instigation of Jewish leaders. Josephus was the most important Roman historian of the first century. Tacitus bore witness to the belief among early Christians that Jesus had been crucified and risen. Yet these evidences aren't as strong as the Bible. The epistles and gospels were written by people who had everything to lose, who maintained extremely high morality to the level that they were willing to die to maintain their beliefs, and were written within the lifetimes of the people they were writing about. I believe I can procur more evidence for Jesus' crucifixion, if you'd give me time. However, if you need more, that would have to be on a different thread. I don't think that what I've written here is within the purpose of this thread, which is discussion of the movie. |
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03-14-2004, 10:04 PM | #193 | |
Elf Lord
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I watched the movie, and thought that it was extremely good. As one of my fellow youth leaders put it "a powerful adaptation of Christ's crucifixion."
I felt that it was a very strong film . . . where to begin in talking about it? Warning for those who haven't seen it- I'm getting into spoilers here! Perhaps I should say that louder. SPOILER ALERT.
Well, those are just a couple of my opinions over this movie. It's one of the only movies I've cried over, and in this one I cried in more places than one. Yet even despite the horrendous reality they portrayed, I know the horror of the crucifixion was really underplayed. In reality, they whipped him so that his intestines actually showed through. The thorns were far longer, and for humiliation they paid him the worst insult for a Jew, having him naked before his fellow men. It was an extremely strong film, and I can well understand God's hand being with it. The cast and crew have said that miracles of healing took place on the site, not to mention the lightning bolt that hit the actor for Jesus. I believe the movie will have a powerful impact. It certainly was an aid to me, spiritually. It's caused me to think of Jesus in a new way, to remember and more firmly realize that he was human. Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-14-2004 at 10:15 PM. |
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03-15-2004, 03:02 AM | #194 | |
The Dragonqueen
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I saw it tonight.....and all I can say is......wow.
It was wonderfully made....the violence was not the focus point, but more the overal suffering of Christ...
I am also a Christian, and this movie rang very true to me. But whether you are Christian or not, this film is powerful and a great display of love. Mel Gibson is a truly talented director.
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03-15-2004, 03:19 AM | #195 |
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I have a question for those who have seen the movie: what is the symbolism of the baby that Satan is holding at the scourging of Christ? Unless that's somehow symbolic of the sin of the world, I don't know. I'd like to get some other opinions on this.
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03-15-2004, 05:23 AM | #196 | ||
Elf Lord
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I completely agree with your comments, Giroth. |
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03-15-2004, 04:32 PM | #197 | ||
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I hope that helps!
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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03-15-2004, 06:21 PM | #198 | ||
Elven Warrior
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Ok, I just saw it yesterday. There were a bunch of inaccuracies. The two that I remember most were these: 1. Herod was dead. There was no possible way that Herod was alive during that time. 2. The Jewish priests wouldn't have slapped Jesus, nor spat on him.
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03-15-2004, 06:44 PM | #199 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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03-16-2004, 04:05 AM | #200 | |||
Elf Lord
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Can you provide evidence that he was dead? Quote:
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I'm not positive I remember whether or not in the movie the priests beat Jesus. I know there was a crowd of people in there that was doing it. In the gospels it says soldiers sometimes, and other times doesn't identify who did it. In Matthew it simply says "they", which could easily include priests. I'm not sure I remember whether it was priests in the movie, though. Is this just your beliefs about the Jewish priests at the time, or do you have a solid case? The gospels have been shown to be reliable in the face of numerous different kinds of challenges and arguments. Archaelogical evidence is extremely foundational, though corroborative documentary evidence from outside sources is far from lacking, also. What we know of the characters of the authors is further evidence for their validity. |
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