06-01-2005, 08:13 PM | #181 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Do you think partial birth abortion is wrong, Radnarok? If so, would you vote to restrict it in any way? If you would, then aren't you forcing your opinion on others who do NOT think it's wrong?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-01-2005, 08:21 PM | #182 |
Rohirrim Warrior
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I think any type of abortion is wrong. Killing potential life is unethical in my opinion. One method of aborting a fetus is taking a pair of scissors and stabbing the fetus in the head. I consider that murder.
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06-01-2005, 08:21 PM | #183 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Could you please answer my last post? I'd like to hear what you have to say EDIT - oh, we cross-posted. I see you answered - thanks!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-01-2005, 08:49 PM | #184 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-01-2005, 10:14 PM | #185 | |||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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06-02-2005, 12:02 AM | #186 | |
Rohirrim Warrior
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Quote:
Last edited by Ragnarok : 06-02-2005 at 12:03 AM. |
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06-02-2005, 12:15 PM | #187 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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"magical ability" - what?! When did I claim that? Never. "perfect knowledge" - what?! When did I claim that? Never. And as far as "see things the rest of us humans cant see" - well, I imagine I see some things you don't, and you see some things I don't. I don't think we all know the exact same things, do you? So I think each of us needs to go off what we, ourselves, see. Don't you? Quote:
Thanks for the quote, but that wasn't what I was trying to find the answer to, so if you would please be patient with me, I'll rephrase the question and ask you again - do you, personally, regardless of the constitution, think that partial birth abortion is wrong?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 06-02-2005 at 12:18 PM. |
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06-02-2005, 01:29 PM | #188 | |||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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06-02-2005, 02:45 PM | #189 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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All of us make decisions, every day, based on imperfect information, right info, wrong info, best guesses, approximations, etc. We both make all sorts of decisions without what you would refer to as "scientific" data when we think it is appropriate or if there is none available. I think we should encourage each other to put a lot of thought into our decisions and base our decisions on the information that we evaluate as valid and relevant. I certainly encourage you to do that; can you do that for me? Or do you think I should just put my mind on a shelf and mindlessly adopt your opinion even if I see no evidence for it? I think that would be pretty sad advice. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 06-02-2005 at 02:47 PM. |
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06-03-2005, 07:06 AM | #190 | |
Elf Lord
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/4605827.stm So, if Bibles transmit MRSA, where does that leave religion? |
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06-03-2005, 09:44 AM | #191 |
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religion should not be encouraged because it can cause harm
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06-03-2005, 01:26 PM | #192 | ||||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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06-06-2005, 03:12 PM | #193 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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But is it wrong to be unjust, IYO? What I want to know is if you, personally, think it is wrong to be unjust.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-06-2005, 03:32 PM | #194 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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However, I seem to be more openminded than you are here - I realize that people are exposed to different circumstances and experiences, and have different abilites, and that they might see and/or experience something that I haven't seen yet, and so their decisions are very valid for them. I don't brand anything that I haven't seen or experienced as "invisible data", like you seem to - I just say that I haven't seen it myself, altho they might have seen it. How can I (and you) judge what other people have seen and experienced? We're not in their bodies. That's what I don't understand about you - you claim to be agnostic, yet you sure seem to be very opinionated. If you're not sure what is right, how come you're sure what is right? You also seem to be very close-minded, for someone who claims to be agnostic, about what other people believe is probably true, based on their experiences. Quote:
Also, it's abundantly clear that you don't ONLY base your decisions that affect others on scientific data. After all, you say that even if scientific data would show that homosexual acts are harmful to a certain level, that you would still NOT be against gay marriage. You are bringing in OTHER factors BESIDES scientific data here. Also, I noted that we can make decisions based on data that is actually wrong, altho we don't know it yet! As you have said many times, scientists make errors! What I do think is right is for people to think for themselves and to make up their own minds, based on the best available information. Quote:
or "shouldn't" do that? Which one? (it's obvious that many people can - and do - discriminate!) Is it wrong to discriminate? (please don't tell me it's discrimination to discriminate - that's a waste of time and says nothing) Is it WRONG to discriminate?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 06-06-2005 at 03:38 PM. |
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06-06-2005, 08:16 PM | #195 | |
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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06-06-2005, 08:18 PM | #196 | |
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And what is the MSRA status the little Red book, BTW ?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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06-06-2005, 10:31 PM | #197 | ||||||||||
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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06-07-2005, 12:23 AM | #198 |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
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when is it not wrong to discriminate?
Rian, I have not see you post WHY you are against gay marriages and why you would want to restrict the rights of gay americans. Is there any scientific data that you have saying that gay marriage is harmful or whatever? You have said that it wouldn't matter if you had it, because none of us would listen to it and we are close-minded (basically this was to IR). If such scientific data does exist, it would force us to listen to you. But it does not. You would restrict the rights of others based on your opinion of right and wrong? Your religious and moral beliefs? Where does that line of thinking end? Why stop with gays?
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06-07-2005, 11:20 AM | #199 |
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Anglican clergy in Arctic condemn same-sex marriage
By GREG YOUNGER-LEWIS Canandian Press IQALUIT (6/4/2005)--Anglican church leaders in the Arctic have put themselves at odds with their national counterparts by condemning homosexuality and same-sex marriage. "Marriage is between a man and a woman," said Ven. Haydn Schofield, archdeacon of the Western Arctic. "For there to be a relationship, even common-law, is unbiblical. "Any union outside of marriage is unbiblical." Archdeacon Schofield said he initiated the vote this week by 70 lay members, priests and bishops with the Anglican Diocese of the Arctic. They voted unanimously to condemn homosexual relationships and to demand all employees do the same, and adopted a charter of beliefs called the Montreal Declaration. The document, written in Montreal in 1994 by conservative Anglican church members, states "adultery, fornication and homosexual unions are intimacies contrary to God's design." The decision is a break with the wider Anglican Church of Canada, which is under fire from top leaders in England to condemn same-sex marriage. The Canadian church has postponed its decision until 2007. Jim Boyles, general secretary for the national body, was not available for comment. The Arctic diocese made clear at the meeting that only people with beliefs similar to the Montreal Declaration can work at its churches. Delegates passed a separate motion outlining conditions of employment, and the church says it will not employ anyone who is having sex outside marriage or is in a homosexual relationship. The church will also refuse to employ anyone who "promotes and supports" that sexual behaviour. The rule applies to clergy as well as other positions such as receptionists. Ben Arreak, the church's bishop for Nunavik, Que., said their stand will keep out non-conservative views and practices, and instead, Inuit traditional values about relationships between men and women will form the base of their beliefs. "That's tradition," Bishop Arreak said. "In order to survive, the man and woman have to help each other, for family and for hunting. . . . If you want to have a healthy body, you can only have a relationship man to woman, woman to man." Not all northern Anglicans supported the decision. Iqaluit resident Maureen Doherty, the daughter of an Anglican minister, said she was withdrawing all financial support for her local church in protest. "I do believe in the blessing and inclusion of gays and lesbians within the Anglican church," Ms. Doherty said. "I think it's very important that the doors remain open. "If I think of 'What would Jesus do?' I think Jesus Christ would probably come out and break bread at the Pride picnic," she said, referring to a coming event supporting the local gay community. Pamela Dickey Young, head of the religious studies department at Queen's University, said fears that the church will be forced to perform same-sex marriage are unfounded. Prof. Young said the clergy has the right to refuse to do such ceremonies under both the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and Bill C-38, the proposed federal legislation to legalize gay marriage. She added that churches should look to the example of divorce in Canada, where the Roman Catholic Church has not been forced to re-marry divorced persons. "I think the freedom of religion arguments are red herrings," she said. END ********************************** So, is this discrimination or declaration of standpoint? I think the latter, not the former. And, is religious freedom is to exist, on what grounds can this be opposed? Doesn't the Charter gurantee religious freedom? Or, is it only allowed when it conforms to the political climate? PS See the post on intimacy vs marriage for background considerations.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
06-07-2005, 04:11 PM | #200 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I don't force what you call my "religious" beliefs on anyone. I make decisions based on my worldview, like you and IRex and everyone else. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 06-07-2005 at 04:18 PM. |
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