08-26-2005, 12:20 PM | #181 | |
Elf Lord
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I agree it's off topic though. We need a thread called "Increasingly deranged oil-frenzied rightwingers" |
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08-26-2005, 12:22 PM | #182 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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lmao
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08-26-2005, 02:45 PM | #183 |
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Spock, do you have any other ideas about where we should move?
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
08-26-2005, 03:19 PM | #184 |
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You know Gaffer, you have pretty much handed me the argument, in my opinion. It's now no longer about whether or not this Christian leader is a terrorist or not. It's about whether Republicans or Democrats, right-wing or left-wing folks, are correct.
My main problem with what Mr. Robertson said is not in what he said, but in that he said it at all. It's not something that's right to say publicly, though discussing the matter privately with friends is another matter.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
08-26-2005, 09:17 PM | #185 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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If you want to discuss how do a people or government deal with terrorists then go to: 2005 How Do We Deal With Terrorists Discussing evolution vs Creationism or I.D. go to: Evidence for Creationism I do feel that the topic: The Kansas Debate - how to teach can be better addressed in the above thread but that's just me. And we have a general Religion II discussion thread that nobody has posted in about a month. In general, if you can keep your postings on topic, we've got topic threads to cover it. As I've said previously, you're welcome to continue here, it's just that to expand the possible 'audience' of interest, you might want to post in the proper thread.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 08-26-2005 at 09:19 PM. |
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08-26-2005, 09:31 PM | #186 |
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Okay. I doubt that this line of discussion will last much longer anyway, so in my opinion, it probably doesn't make much difference.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
08-26-2005, 09:34 PM | #187 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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So just bug the good ol' mod. eh?
...you guys have an endless supply of dialogue, I'd be surprised to see it end anytime soon --------------------------------------------- Auda abu Tayi: [to Lawrence] I carry twenty-three great wounds, all got in battle. Seventy-five men have I killed with my own hands in battle. I scatter, I burn my enemies' tents. I take away their flocks and herds. The Turks pay me a golden treasure, yet I am poor! Because *I* am a river to my people! Last edited by Spock : 08-26-2005 at 09:35 PM. |
08-26-2005, 09:37 PM | #188 |
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Another point is that the current discussion really is fairly on-topic. It is a "Religious debate on terrorism". The discussion started with Islamic mullas preaching terrorism against us, and the religion behind it. Now it's been talking about a Christian evangelist supposedly preaching terrorism. It's still about terrorism, and still religious . . .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
08-26-2005, 09:39 PM | #189 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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....goodnight mrs. kalabash, wherever you are.....
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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08-26-2005, 09:42 PM | #190 |
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(Mrs. Kalabesh snores loudly and turns over in her sleep)
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
08-29-2005, 06:50 AM | #191 | |
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I agree that it was wrong for him to say it. It's also true to say that Pat Robertson is an increasingly deranged, oil-frenzied right-winger. Each of those statements are independently true (IMO), however. The fact that he's an IDOFRW (for short) helps to explain why he would say those things. The thing is that it's hard to get a concrete reason why Chavez is a danger, other than the really obvious one of how he's sitting on a big bunch of oil and has all sorts of seditious notions about redistributing wealth and helping poor people. I would have thought those sorts of behaviour would attract support from Christian commentators, not incitements to assassination. But then, I am forgetting how much you need your SUVs to drive to Church on Sundays. Last edited by The Gaffer : 08-29-2005 at 06:51 AM. |
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08-29-2005, 02:10 PM | #192 |
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Well said. There simply is no doubt his comments were about as hypocritical as you can get from so many perspectives. Hes supposedly a christian and hes preaching hate and death from the pulpit. Hes supposedly an american (democracy anyone?) and hes saying take out an elected official because hes not a friend of ours. It IS about POLITICAL assasinations. The Bush administration knows very well Chavez is an annoyance but not some kind of terrorist king pin. What folly. The problem is that hes got control of a state that has lots of oil and hes rather hostile with us at the moment and to a certain segment of conservative americans that combination is a good enough reason to kill someone. Why risk losing our grip on our favorite drug after all? Oil is that important to some people.
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08-29-2005, 05:02 PM | #193 |
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What I'm surprised of is that no one seems to find it out-of-line that a religious figure is interfering with politics. (Separation of religion and state and all sorts) Most of us scream murder and terrorism when a muslim religious figure says anything about killing or removing other people from their positions. Why not now?
Not to mention this is rather abuse of his own position (religious figure and with a possibility to reach a lot of people through the TV-medium).
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08-29-2005, 10:45 PM | #194 | ||||
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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08-29-2005, 11:24 PM | #195 | |
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As far as him being a religious figure, IMO that's what freedom of religion is all about - we don't censor people, no matter what their religious background is, from expressing their views (except in the extreme case of things like shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater, and then the penalty applies to anyone, regardless of their religion). I would have no problem with a high-ranking American who is Muslim calling for people to vote for women to not drive or something like that - that's his right in this country.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 08-29-2005 at 11:26 PM. |
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08-29-2005, 11:26 PM | #196 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-30-2005, 04:00 AM | #197 |
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I accept that there is a clear difference between saying "kill all Americans" and "kill Chavez". On closer examination, I'm not too sure that the comparison would be 100% favourable towards the like of Robertson. From one perspective, the Muslim extremists are arguing from (albeit perverted) religious principle, whereas PR seems to be arguing from materialistic expediency.
As far we know, Chavez is innocent too. But surely there's more to morality than whether we think the victim deserves to die? |
08-30-2005, 04:28 AM | #198 | ||
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08-30-2005, 08:00 AM | #199 | |
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Don't worry - he doesn't hold sway over hordes of people who will mindlessly follow him. He has said some things that a lot of people agree with (personally - I've never been a big fan), so they say "Yeah that's right!" and continue to listen to him. He says something completely nuts like this, and a lot of those people will say "What an idiot!" and stop listening.
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08-30-2005, 09:36 PM | #200 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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