Teacup Café XLII

[Mari]

On a very different note: I'm re-reading LotR and enjoying it a lot. The last couple of years I mostly re-watched the films, so sometimes I'm surprised by the actual course of events in the book. I must say, I do think the book is better I said it before, but now I say it again with my fresh outlook.

[Noble Elf Lord]

Bloody pantsies, I came here to wish "Happy Midsummer's!" to everyone, and there's that whole school discussion-e... maybe I'll partake.

...

Nah, I'll just brag about how good a schooling system we have in Finland - world-class...
That did sound worrysome though. While special kids not getting the much-needed personal guidance is a problem everywhere, it seemed to me, after working at my former school for two years, that lack of discipline is much more dire a problem here. The brats are so very knowledgeable on their rights, they may do anything... I doubt this made it to the news anywhere else, but there was this event when a teacher almost literally threw a student out of the class room for being so disturbing. He got sued, but did not get fired. The opinions on this are rather spread, I understand. I'm glad he gets to continue. Mind you, the student wasn't harmed at all, he was just removed from the room.

I really hope they'll pass the law for allowing teachers to order students to work, not sit in detention, which has become a joke here. There's no respect whatsoever for the staff when it comes to the worst brats.

Oh and Ingwe, nice story... I'm so into Skyrim now. Hunting with my Bosmer werewolf is so... different and interesting from my usual Skyrim-is-my-treasure-sack- system. I always give strict RPG-rules for my chars


So: Happy Midsummers to one and all!

[Mari]

Oh, you find the lack of respect here too. It starts with the parents who don't respect the teacher and his authority. If the parents don't respect it, why should the children?
We had e case last year where a principal was thrown in jail for escorting 2 kids out of the classroom whilst touching them. The kids were obviously wrong, but because the parent sued, the principal had to await his sentence in jail. This sparked social outrage of course and once again it became clear how far away a lot of people are from the field. They think kids are harmless and cute and would never do such things so of course it's the adult who is wrong. Unfortunately a lot of these people are politicians.
The principal was cleared of all charges and the police apologised for putting him in jail by the way.

It's always interesting to me that in these 'think tanks' for education who come up with plans for schools and how they should be run, there is hardly ever a real teacher. It's always professors, psychologists, etc. but no one who has actually taught a modern class.

[Noble Elf Lord]

Yeah, I remember the arts teacher (my "main boss" if you will) tell that this one kid, the worst I've seen, was bragging to her once that his father makes a lot more money than she does. I thought "...And how does that relate to anything...?" And get this: his father is a principal in another school. The whole family, I hear, is a bunch of [insert bad insult here].

But aye, another very serious problem is that the deciders know nothing but how to fill their own pockets with money. Thinking about them always makes me wanna go knife-happy. "I'm not murderous, I'm feeling creative with weapons."
Ah well. There have been some surprisingly smart, attitude-y moves by some politicians, I may yet have hope. *shrug*

[Noble Elf Lord]

Oh and this is from a webcomic I read, and while I don't agree 100%, I'd say it's a good read.

http://xkcd.com/1227/

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Mari

It's always interesting to me that in these 'think tanks' for education who come up with plans for schools and how they should be run, there is hardly ever a real teacher. It's always professors, psychologists, etc. but no one who has actually taught a modern class.

Funny that, eh? I have noticed that here and there too. There's one local politician, a mayor, that is constantly being presented as a 'traffic specialist' in the media. Dude, making your city one of the most difficult to navigate with speed bumps, one way roads everywhere, ill-placed flower beds galore, terrible public works, and where daily cars crawl around the city's market instead of drive, does not make you a traffic specialist. Frankly, personally, I'd suggest the opposite...

[Mari]

I'd say it DOES make him a specialist. Just not in getting the traffic flowing
As my colleague said today: they all try to leave their mark on their field and they don't care if it's a stupid idea. It's just one giant pissing contest for them.

[Varnafindë]

And they don't care if everyone else is pissed off?

[tolkienfan]

Noble Elf Lord, that comic you posted is great! I wonder about these things sometimes, and it's nice to know that this has been an issue for centuries (and therefore, since I'm happy with how my grandparents turned out, I probably don't have to worry too much about my future grandkids). It's so funny that they were lamenting the cut of news articles from 30 pages to 15!

[Mari]

It's not 'everyone else' that is pissed off. Just the people who actually work in the field they are making rules for. The rest of the Netherlands doesn't know what's what. Educators try to tell them, but media aren't always fair in their articles. We often come across as a bunch of whining people who don't want this new miracle cure for all our problems because implementing them would be too much work for us. And we shouldn't complain because no other job has as many holidays as teachers do anyway, so what are we complaining about?

The field certainly doesn't have a lot of impact in the grand scheme of things. Take our last school innovation from 2002 for example. Back then, educators said it would not work, but politicians forced it anyway. So they did what politics told them to do and indeed it did not work. The concept has been changed significantly from its original form over the years and gradually it's going back to what it was before the change (though not completely of course). The woman who thought of this great plan is still lauded for it. If people remark on how it had to change to work, the rebuke is that the plan DOES work, but was implemented too fast and the schools were not precise enough in following the plan.

That's how these things work.

[Noble Elf Lord]

Glad to hear it was enjoyed by someone Did you also read the text that appears when you move your mouse over the comic? There's a similar one in every comic he makes.

[Varnafindë]

There are school reforms in Norway that aren't working too well, either. There's something called 'National tests' that are rather controversial. These tests are the same for the whole country, and the totals for each shool are published (somewhere), so all schools can know whether they are better than other schools or not.

There are rumours that the main focus on teaching turns to be what will be tested in the tests. There are even rumours that some teachers tell the weakest pupils, "We don't mind if you happen to have a day's sick leave just on the day when the test will be run."

Originally Posted by Mari

The field certainly doesn't have a lot of impact in the grand scheme of things. Take our last school innovation from 2002 for example. Back then, educators said it would not work, but politicians forced it anyway. So they did what politics told them to do and indeed it did not work. The concept has been changed significantly from its original form over the years and gradually it's going back to what it was before the change (though not completely of course). The woman who thought of this great plan is still lauded for it. If people remark on how it had to change to work, the rebuke is that the plan DOES work, but was implemented too fast and the schools were not precise enough in following the plan.

That's how these things work.

Sounds familiar. I fear that's how they work here as well.

[Mari]

Here they've started publishing the test results per school as well. The test itself wasn't that bad, but this will get parents to choose a school based on test results, if they can, and really: what ARE you measuring with these tests? Simply if kids can perform a trick. You don't test their ingenuity or the ability to use what they've learned outside in the real world.
It's crazy to think that if you have taught a dog to jump through hoops he can somehow also find food when you leave it alone after.

[Acalewia]

Good morning, fellow Mooters. How is everyone?

[BeardofPants]

I am well. Looking forward to tying off a stressful crazy last few weeks at work. A relaxing holiday in Austin, before getting back to the grindstone, lol.

[Mari]

No, because by then they will go out at night and you'll lie awake waiting till they come home.

I've started playing Skyrim 3 weeks ago. It's much more difficult than Oblivion, mostly because it's so hard to get money without investing in perks in the enchanting or merchant tree.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Mari

No, because by then they will go out at night and you'll lie awake waiting till they come home.

We-ell... maybe it depends on your definition. I'd maintain that lack of rest will take a year or 18, but lack of peace of mind is probably forever.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

We-ell... maybe it depends on your definition. I'd maintain that lack of rest will take a year or 18, but lack of peace of mind is probably forever.

I stayed with my dad and my stepmother for a week in the beginning of July. I planned to go back by bus - and when I told them that I would then arrive in Central Oslo at 11.20 p.m., my stepmother nearly worried herself sick.

It helped when I realised that I needn't go all the way to Central Oslo and then back again to the suburbs where I live. Instead I could get off at the last stop outside the city itself, and book a taxi to be waiting for me there and taking me home right to my doorstep. Then I wouldn't be in the dangerous city by night.

She's 82 ...

[Earniel]

*raids soda cabinet* Meh, blood drives and hot weather are not a winning combination.

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

Then I wouldn't be in the dangerous city by night.

Does Oslo as a whole have a high crime rate to be considered dangerous? Or perhaps just the area around the station? I keep hearing often that Scandinavia is so much better than here, because they have higher social security and barely any crime. (Despite the many succesful Scandinavian crime writers, which always makes me wonder. )

[Varnafindë]

*waves to Snowdog*

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Does Oslo as a whole have a high crime rate to be considered dangerous? Or perhaps just the area around the station? I keep hearing often that Scandinavia is so much better than here, because they have higher social security and barely any crime. (Despite the many succesful Scandinavian crime writers, which always makes me wonder. )

Some areas in central Oslo are best avoided at night, especially taxi queues when restaurants have just closed at 3 a.m. and people are drunk and want to be at the front of the queue. There have been quarrels and even occasional fatalities in those situations.

I don't consider the station area particularly dangerous, especially not before midnight. It's good that she doesn't know how many times I've caught the last train home ...