The Singers Thread

[Tessar]

Aww poop. No lesson today because he has to make an emergency business trip to Houston for his university. Oh well.

[Tessar]

*sigh* Frustrating. I gave my dad a lesson today, and like the one we had on Sunday, he's having difficulty moving forward.

The problem is that he can make the sounds I want him to make, but then he just starts clenching and trying SO HARD to sing that everything falls apart. I think part of it is nerves. The biggest thing is that I can get him to speak phrases the way I want him to sing them, and then I have him elongate the phrases till he's practically singing them. But then the minute he realizes what he's doing... BOOM. Things fall apart. He starts forcing the air pressure, he throws all his vowels back into his throat and 'uh', and clenches his jaw.

Another problem is that, for whatever reason, he doesn't seem to be able to maintain his support right now. His ribs just collapse inwards till I make him expand them over and over.


Considering how short of a time we've been working, he IS doing very well. It's important to keep that in mind. I'm very proud of how well he's doing. His voice sounds GREAT when we do the speaking the phrases, like a nice, fuller version of his regular voice.... eventually we'll bring that into his singing .




I'm really enjoying singing with so much more ease, and I've noticed that I can speak for much longer without my throat getting scratchy when I remember to focus on my technique stuff. I also fixed my occasional lisp... not really a full on 'lisp'. It's just that when I get excited (which is pretty frequently) my habit is to pull my tongue back slightly, which messes with all of my vowels and my 's' sound. But I fixed that (mostly... just got to remember to keep using it ).

Fingers crossed rehearsal goes well tomorrow! I'm super excited!

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Does anyone know what happened to Voronwen? O_o She just up and vanished completely.

Oh, i'm so sorry! I completely forgot to post something here before going away for two weeks Forgive me!

Now i am off to go catch up on posts!

[Tessar]

I coached with the soprano today, and she was GREAT! I really liked her.

Amazingly enough, some of the counter-tenor stuff we did opened up my baritone upper range too! I think I've been pulling up just a bit too much chest, still, so (after we did the falsetto singing) when we went to check up on my baritone range it helped me get over that F# "hump" and up to a very free, easy G4!

It might just be that doing some work in the falsetto will open up my baritone voice the rest of the way. My teacher warned me that for some guys doing the counter-tenor thing will 'eat away' at their voice, but for others it really opens it up. Hopefully, it appears, it will do the opening for mine.


One of the things that's awesome about her is how musically intelligent she is. She also used the same basic musical 'ideas' and terminology that I like to use... things like 'putting the resonance in the mouth', 'speech-singing', etc. So when she told me to do things I was (usually!) able to right away connect to what she meant and get it working in my voice.

[Voronwen]

Oh, how interesting, Tessar! So do you think you might end up wanting to be a countertenor full-time? Or will it remain just an exercise for you?

Re. a previous post about whether most women are mezzos or sopranos: I agree with you. Most of the sources i've encountered and teachers i've spoken with have said that most women are in fact some kind of soprano. Many sopranos just don't know how to access their higher register so while they are untrained or early in training they might pass for mezzos or think they are mezzos. But the actual mezzo voice is more rare. The contralto voice is the rarest of them all.

Also, a lot of people think that coloratura voices are rare, but that's actually not the case. The rare soprano voices are actually the kinds on the heaviest end of the spectrum ie. dramatic, spinto, etc. Lyric sopranos are by far the most common, followed by coloraturas.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

Oh, how interesting, Tessar! So do you think you might end up wanting to be a countertenor full-time? Or will it remain just an exercise for you?

I'm just viewing it as an exercise. I don't think I have a nearly big enough counter-tenor voice to warrant aiming for a career as one, especially not when it looks like my baritone voice is going to be pretty decently sized. I'm pretty happy with the color my baritone voice is developing, so I think baritone is the way for me to go.

Plus I think CTs careers probably end earlier. I don't have any real knowledge to back that up, but I do know for a fact that a lot of men start to lose some of the functionality of their falsetto as they age, although whether that's from lack of use or from actual age-related causes I don't know.


To be perfectly honest, my mom is also a factor . My parents are starting to be SUPER supportive of me. I mean out of the blue my mom just gave me money to cover the coaching I had today, and they're going to add texting capabilities back to my phone because I explained to them that as much as texting generally annoys me, our director seems to be using it to communicate with the cast.

My mom isn't real excited about CTs, and she would much rather her son be a manly baritone. I love singing baritone, so it's not like I'm making a sacrifice or anything . But it's still a (small) factor .

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Plus I think CTs careers probably end earlier. I don't have any real knowledge to back that up, but I do know for a fact that a lot of men start to lose some of the functionality of their falsetto as they age, although whether that's from lack of use or from actual age-related causes I don't know.

Hmm.. i don't know the answer to that myself. Maybe you can talk to this new coach about it, and get her opinion? I know there aren't many countertenors out there, and i've only worked with one once. I do know that many of them are actually baritones, so i wasn't surprised to see that you were giving it a try.

My mom isn't real excited about CTs, and she would much rather her son be a manly baritone. I love singing baritone, so it's not like I'm making a sacrifice or anything . But it's still a (small) factor .

Admittedly i don't particularly enjoy listening to them either, for all that i love all things baroque, so i can agree with your mom

[Tessar]

BLASPHEME!!! O_o How dare you say you don't particularly enjoy CTs!


I gotta tell you, this teacher thing is already taking an emotional toll. I feel so guilty about sneaking around like this...

But gosh darn it. You know what? I feel like I have a real chance at a career if I take this, admittedly somewhat risky, path. I have real confidence that I might actually be able to do this if I can stick with the right teachers and keep working my butt off.

And I don't think this 'assigned' teacher of mine is going to be a bad teacher at all. Quite the contrary, I think she's probably a good teacher. But... I found a -great- teacher, and a -great- coach. Why should I give that up for something less? You know? I just feel horrible because she does seem like a genuinely very kind person, and I go out of my way to avoid hurting people's feelings. I can't even imagine if a student of mine were secretly getting their instruction from another teacher. I'd feel betrayed.

It's not even her fault, she just got shoved into the middle of it because of our department head refusing to work with me or give me professional courtesy.


I really, really hope that as I develop a relationship with this teacher I can eventually get to a point where I can say something like, "You know, how do you feel about me getting some coaching?" so that then she knows at least that I'm getting a little 'assistance' on the side.

Gosh darn it . I have been at the point of crying a couple of times thinking about it, and I have this stupid rash on my left hand from being so stressed out. I don't feel like it's "morally" wrong, I'm more worried about her feeling betrayed.

Actually I probably shouldn't even be talking about it online. Stuff has a weird way of coming back to bite you in the ass when you announce it to the world, although I've been super careful not to say anything about it IRL except to one of my most absolutely trusted best friends. But blegh. Too stressed out right now.

[Voronwen]

Tessar, i'm sorry you're stressed But i really don't think teachers have a problem with their students going for coachings. In fact where i went to school, coachings were *required*. Now if you were actually taking lessons from two different teachers (as in, technique teachers), then that might be a different story. The trouble with that is more about learning two different approaches to technique which could be confusing, to say the least, not to mention it's about one professional's boundaries overstepping another and then where does each one draw the line (would you go to two different hairdressers, or two different doctors? Same thing). For this reason it kind of crosses lines of professional etiquette and protocol.

But if you're seeing a teacher and seeing a coach, then i think that is for the most part generally expected. Don't sweat it.

[Tessar]

I've got some fun pieces this semester, and I think they'll challenge me but not be horribly taxing. I got Handel's Honor and Arms and Where'er you Walk. I got Purcell's Man Is For The Woman Made, Donaudy's O Del Mio Amato Ben, and Schumann's In Der Fremde.

Things seem to be shaping up pretty well . Right now I'm taking a short break. I've just been going through all of the pieces... first I made sure I knew what all of the words meant for the english ones (and looked up 'alternate' old english meanings for the Purcell), and now I'm translating the Donaudy. I'm going to retranslate it at home with my own Italian dictionary and get the IPA from that.

I'm hoping/planning to get all of my songs translated and get report sheets done for all five this weekend. I can just hand them to her on Monday and say, "Here, all of my reports are done, I've studied the songs/composers/poets/etc." so that I wont get bogged down with it later in the semester when I get -really- busy.

I'm also going to memorize the Purcell because it's super easy, and start on the Donaudy and the Honor and Arms because those two are hard and will take me longer to learn. I think particularly the O Del Mio Amato Ben... it's so beautiful but there are a LOT of little 'twists and turns' in the rhythm and melody to learn, never mind the sweeping dynamic changes throughout. I'm gonna get a bunch of recordings for each song and stick those on my iPod.

I gotta say, though... the Purcell, Man is for the woman made.... is friggin' DIRTY. O_o Literally every line is a sexual metaphor. It's like... good lord. I'm not sure I really want to be singing this. :-/ I mean it's cute, and I don't mind some insinuation, but EVERY LINE? Geeze. *sigh*

[Voronwen]

LOL! Yeah, some of those old librettists had... quite a sense of humor! Perhaps use it as an acting exercise. Baritones have plenty of 'buffo' roles that require good comedic timing, etc. Not that that'll make you any more comfortable with it, but.... if you really don't feel right singing it, say something. I totally would.

[Voronwen]

It occurs to me that i need to be doing more with my inclinations toward baroque music...

I've been singing through a lot of my baroque repertoire recently and, in more ways than one, it fits me like a glove. Vocally, stylistically, temperament, etc. There is something about it that, when i am singing this music, i feel like i've "come home".

In college, that was actually what i was known for in my school's voice department - i was the "baroque specialist" of the group. Over the years i have strayed into the more mainstream operatic repertoire through my post-college voice studies, but have never found another period in classical music that has suited me as well.

I've had many teachers, coaches etc over the years tell me that my voice was "born to sing baroque", and i also happen to love it immensely. I think i need to be listening to what my voice and my heart are telling me.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

I've had many teachers, coaches etc over the years tell me that my voice was "born to sing baroque", and i also happen to love it immensely. I think i need to be listening to what my voice and my heart are telling me.

Sounds like a good plan to me . Use the Force, young Voronwen!

But seriously... if that's what you truly love to sing, and if it fits your voice... why the heck not? Go for it! With gusto! And passion! Do it! You should see if you can't set up some kind of web-cam coaching with a good baroque specialist (since you said you live in the middle of nowhere).

When I coached with the early music soprano, the most fascinating thing was her explaining to me a few of the skeleton rules for how and where to ornament. I'm sure you know a lot of that already, having sung baroque music so music, but that just means a coach could get into greater detail with you .


Today I started tip-toing into In der Fremde by Schumann. I can sing it without much difficulty at all, it tops out at a D4 and bottoms out at a D3... I feel like I can sing it decently that way. But to really maximize the progress I've made lately I have to just very slowly work my way through the phrases and use all of my different tricks to keep things perfectly aligned .

I think I can get a lot out of the song if I really drill and perfect it. I'm really going to try not to let myself settle for any mediocrity this semester. We'll see how THAT goes .

I spent some time this morning listening to and analyzing the accompaniment and found some REALLY cool stuff . Like at one point the accompaniment lets me sing a phrase, then in the 'soprano' line of the piano you hear my line played inverted . Then later on the piano plays my line lagging behind a beat, then after the high note I sing in unison with it. Just lots of really clever little things like that.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Sounds like a good plan to me . Use the Force, young Voronwen!

LOL! Not so young, either, but i guess all the more would i do better offering a 'niche' repertoire, or so i'm told! Focusing on a niche would mean it's not too late to get back into the swing of things for a mini-career, even if it's just a local thing. But that's not why i would focus on a niche, it just happens to be the frosting on the cake.

But seriously... if that's what you truly love to sing, and if it fits your voice... why the heck not? Go for it! With gusto! And passion! Do it!

Yeah, this is exactly what i've been feeling. Baroque/early music has been for me, looking back, the one thing i consistently always come home to. I do have a definite inate inclination and passion for it. I guess part of me also wanted to see, after college, whether i could stretch out and do other things with classical singing, but i've found time and time again that it just so happens that i didn't have to go looking for my proper niche - no, it found me. And this happened relatively early on. What have i been doing?! Well, i can't get back lost time. In the words of a certain wise wizard, it's all about what we decide to do with the time we've been given.

You should see if you can't set up some kind of web-cam coaching with a good baroque specialist (since you said you live in the middle of nowhere).

That is a FABULOUS idea!!! Yes, i am in the middle of nowhere. And i'm also between teachers. But this may also be actually a good thing. My former teacher was very much into 'mainstream opera' which, although it's been interesting and has given me a well-rounded background, has also been a sidetrack of sorts. I need to find a teacher, or at least a coach, who is more early-music oriented.

When I coached with the early music soprano, the most fascinating thing was her explaining to me a few of the skeleton rules for how and where to ornament. I'm sure you know a lot of that already, having sung baroque music so music, but that just means a coach could get into greater detail with you .

Indeed!

I think my concern has been, sure, i could coach to the hilt and have all this to work with, but then where would i use it. Being stuck in the middle of nowhere, it's much like being vocally all dressed up with nowhere to go But at least it would make me happy.

It was very different when i was graduating from college and still in a more metropolitan area. I was actually offered work with an early music ensemble right at my senior recital when a local conductor who had come to listen approached me afterward.

Being in a more ... conducive location, i had a lot more opportunities to use what i had trained for. But singing is not something we can just walk away from, no matter where life puts us - we just have to do it somehow. It's part of us.

Anyway, enough about me...

Today I started tip-toing into In der Fremde by Schumann. I can sing it without much difficulty at all, it tops out at a D4 and bottoms out at a D3... I feel like I can sing it decently that way. But to really maximize the progress I've made lately I have to just very slowly work my way through the phrases and use all of my different tricks to keep things perfectly aligned.

I think I can get a lot out of the song if I really drill and perfect it.

Ah, good! It's a good thing to have a 'stretch' piece. Not only does it teach you a lot about working your technique, it also shows how far you could take things, if you wanted to. You get a feel for the natural limits of your instrument and how far you can go. This is a good thing to get a feel for. It helps you to know yourself as a singer.

I'm really going to try not to let myself settle for any mediocrity this semester. We'll see how THAT goes .

Ha! Don't give up. I have faith in you!

I spent some time this morning listening to and analyzing the accompaniment and found some REALLY cool stuff. Like at one point the accompaniment lets me sing a phrase, then in the 'soprano' line of the piano you hear my line played inverted . Then later on the piano plays my line lagging behind a beat, then after the high note I sing in unison with it. Just lots of really clever little things like that.

Isn't that stuff great? Especially in baroque (ok, forgive me, the passion sneaks out everywhere! ). When i was working on da capo ornamentation for Tornami a vagheggiar, right on te solo vuol amar! i did a variation on doubling the first violin's part. It was amazingly fun to sing. That sort of thing makes us feel more connected to the whole piece of music, i think, instead of being just 'out there' with the other instruments behind us.

Ah..... All this talk makes me want to go and practice!

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I'm really going to try not to let myself settle for any mediocrity this semester. We'll see how THAT goes .

Seems like a great ambition, Tessar - and a wise one! Yes, we'll see how it goes!

[Tessar]

I think my concern has been, sure, i could coach to the hilt and have all this to work with, but then where would i use it. Being stuck in the middle of nowhere, it's much like being vocally all dressed up with nowhere to go But at least it would make me happy.

It was very different when i was graduating from college and still in a more metropolitan area. I was actually offered work with an early music ensemble right at my senior recital when a local conductor who had come to listen approached me afterward.

Well, maybe you could consider finding a way to move back to a metropolitan area. I know it's never as easy as just snapping your fingers and poof you're back in the city .

That's pretty impressive that you got an offer right after giving your recital! I'm sure you're even better now, and you could probably find work if you were in the right area.




So my frustration..... You know how I've been super frustrated and keep wondering why I'll sing for someone and they're like, "your voice is beautiful and resonant," then I'll record myself and go, "I HATE MY STUPID THIN, FLAT VOICE!" ?

I just realized that my mic catches neither the bass nor the overtones of the things it picks up. I noticed that a background noise sounded weird, so I stood in front of my sister and I sang a note while recording. She said that the recorded note sounded flatter, less resonant, and really 'foggy' compared to the real life note. She said it almost sounded 'straight tone' compared to what I had actually sung.


*sigh* So now I REALLY have no idea what I sound like. Boo! She was hesitant to say anything, because she claims she doesn't have much of an 'ear' for that kind of thing, so I don't know if there was actually a big difference or if it was just her trying not to hurt my feelings.

I wish I could not get so frustrated but I also really wish I knew what the heck I sound like!! Argh!!!!!!!!!! I doubt it's vastly different from the recording, but I want to know how much different it is. You know? I've had several people tell me recently that they think I have a lot of potential, so I want to hear whatever it is that's making them say that to see if there actually -is- anything to make them say that. You know? It's frustrating.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Well, maybe you could consider finding a way to move back to a metropolitan area. I know it's never as easy as just snapping your fingers and poof you're back in the city .

Right? I need some Ruby Slippers

But seriously, it's all about convincing my husband to sell the house and give up his stable position, both of which are great blessings in these times. I'm kind of alternately caught between counting my blessings and feeling trapped I know, that sounds weird...

That's pretty impressive that you got an offer right after giving your recital! I'm sure you're even better now, and you could probably find work if you were in the right area.

I'm sure of it.

I just realized that my mic catches neither the bass nor the overtones of the things it picks up.

Aha! I had a feeling this had to do with the recordings.

*sigh* So now I REALLY have no idea what I sound like. Boo!

Listen to what your teachers are saying, and trust it.

I wish I could not get so frustrated but I also really wish I knew what the heck I sound like!! Argh!!!!!!!!!!

Just enjoy singing, and don't worry about it so much Easier said than done! I know i went through a phase where i was very concerned about my sound. I think every singer does. But i think maybe this has something to do with wanting something out of your sound that it was not meant to have. In my case i worried about not having 'enough' sound, as in enough fullness, richness, enough of what i thought of as a "mature" soprano sound. But what i realized was that i was comparing myself too much against fuller types of voices. No matter how old i get, i will never sound like a different voice type. It is what it is. It's a good thing though because my lighter voice type is perfectly suited to the music i love best.

I'm not saying that your frustration is rooted in the same cause, i'm just throwing that out there. Also in your case, you're still very young, as singers go. Give your voice some time to mature.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

Right? I need some Ruby Slippers

But seriously, it's all about convincing my husband to sell the house and give up his stable position, both of which are great blessings in these times. I'm kind of alternately caught between counting my blessings and feeling trapped I know, that sounds weird...

I totally feel you on that one . It is very possible to feel trapped AND blessed all at once .

I'm not saying that your frustration is rooted in the same cause, i'm just throwing that out there. Also in your case, you're still very young, as singers go. Give your voice some time to mature.

I don't think it is... I'm not really expecting to hear a huge voice or a super amazing sound, but what I've been hearing is so incredibly disappointing and doesn't match up to what I've been told I sound like.

I think another part of the problem is that I'm so used to hearing my friend sing, and he's pretty much the best thing you'll find his age... and older, for that matter. This is him. And I would say that a.) this recording doesn't even do him justice, and b.) he's improved since he sang this. I mean he impresses people who've sung at the Met. when he performs for them in master classes. Not to mention being a really awesome guy .

It's hard to hear that every day, especially now in rehearsals, and not listen to myself and go, "blech."


I just realized after reading what I wrote that it sounds like I'm making excuses... I'm really not. Just trying to be realistic and figure out if I have what it takes. I mean I know my friend does. He's incredible. But I listen to myself and I really question.... because I don't want to be stupid and go for it if there isn't a chance, you know? But at the same time... argh. I am willing to work so hard to get it, if there's a possibility I can have it...

I will say I'm proud of that... I've been working really hard the last week or two, and particularly the last five days, and I'm going strong as far as my music is concerned with learning/translating/etc.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I just realized after reading what I wrote that it sounds like I'm making excuses... I'm really not. Just trying to be realistic and figure out if I have what it takes. I mean I know my friend does. He's incredible. But I listen to myself and I really question.... because I don't want to be stupid and go for it if there isn't a chance, you know? But at the same time... argh. I am willing to work so hard to get it, if there's a possibility I can have it...

I don't think you're making excuses. The fact that you're trying to see where you realistically fit in the grand scheme of things is important. As for having "a chance", i think anyone who works hard at it can have a place in it all. Remember it's not all about the Met. And not making it to the Met doesn't mean rock-bottom for you, either - there are many levels and gradations in between. I know of some people who are very happy having carved out a regional career for themselves, for instance.

I totally understand about your friend, though. I had a friend like that in college, too. She could do anything, from musical theater belting to full-lyric opera. She was a heavier voice type. When we did our Rosenkavalier scene where i was Sophie, she was the Marschallin. She was also younger than me, which was frustrating in itself because at the time i thought that all the older, "classier" roles would go to me as i was older, but what i didn't get yet at that time was that it was all about voice type (and body type, to an extent - i'm petite and look young). As a light voice, roles like Marschallin, the Mozart Donnas, Contessa, etc would have left me with a short vocal lifespan and a good candidate for vocal cord surgery Not worth it!

I will say I'm proud of that... I've been working really hard the last week or two, and particularly the last five days, and I'm going strong as far as my music is concerned with learning/translating/etc.

Excellent I have a bunch of new stuff i want to learn too - all of it pre-1800

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

Excellent I have a bunch of new stuff i want to learn too - all of it pre-1800

Do tell!!!