08-19-2004, 03:27 PM | #181 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Rian, you say.."But my point had nothing to do with how your son got here, or how creation got here. My point was that if one thing is better suited to take care of another thing, that needs care, for WHATEVER reason, than it is only logical that the one that is better suited to take care of the other should do so, and it has nothing to do with being conceited. It's merely a fact."
I don't think humans are better suited to take care of everything else. I don't think everything else needs human care. But...... parents are suited to take care of their own children, and young children do need care. Apples/oranges. It is believable that some humans might think they are better than everything else, and also believe it is only *logical* that they then are entitled to *care* for everything else as they see fit, but it is in no way a fact. I guess I see choosing to believe that god made humans a higher order is perhaps rather....you know...the "N" word.
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08-19-2004, 03:27 PM | #182 | |
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*intones "billions and billions and billions and billions of years...." *
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 08-19-2004 at 03:29 PM. |
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08-19-2004, 03:32 PM | #183 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Perhaps if you gave me a call, I could explain better ... *evil grin* You never called me ... *pathetic, sad, guilt-inducing look* I'll just go off now and cry for a bit ... *looks back to see if Lizra is picking up the phone*
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-19-2004, 03:51 PM | #184 | |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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IF it's a fact? What's this...a waffle? You either think it's a fact or you don't. I don't. As I said before... "I guess I see choosing to believe that god made humans a higher order is perhaps rather....you know...the "N" word." Nice guilt trip! But hey....I don't want to talk about the Christian religion! That's the main reason I haven't called. I've heard the spiel, and weighed the "evidence", and I don't believe it. I don't want to spend any time hearing about god! Nothing against you personally though, you are very fun except for the religious "digs". The little darlin just came in with big plans anyway.
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08-19-2004, 04:05 PM | #185 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
(do I really have a nice voice?)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-19-2004, 04:15 PM | #186 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-19-2004, 04:19 PM | #187 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'm too bummed to reply now (see vent thread)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
08-19-2004, 04:21 PM | #188 |
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well i dont think you are inconsiderate or stupid or a lout (whats a lout?). But i do think you have "different opinions". And you know what I think of those.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
08-19-2004, 04:24 PM | #189 |
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If we are just animals, we seem to be the only ones who care about any other species (apart from our dogs caring for us... but they just think we're part of their 'pack' ). We're the only ones who strive (in some measure anyway) to protect and preserve the environment... including each of those other species.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
08-19-2004, 04:27 PM | #190 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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good, Val's here!
i was afraid i'd have to start helping RÃ*an to even things out
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
08-19-2004, 04:29 PM | #191 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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It's hard being the victim of a stereotype Oh well.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-19-2004, 04:29 PM | #192 | |
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Oh no... can't stay. Maybe you should just go ahead!
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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08-19-2004, 05:02 PM | #193 | |
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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08-19-2004, 05:34 PM | #194 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Oh Rian.....
The first phone conversation we had, you brought up god stuff. It's no big deal though! I just didn't want to hurt your feelings (too late) if I called you by telling you I absolutely didn't want to talk about god. Gossip about other mooters...yes... ask how your surgery is...yes...talk about kids...yes....religion...NO! Now I'll go to the vent thread....
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08-19-2004, 05:59 PM | #195 | |
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In domesticating various animals, we haven't exactly invented them. By husbandry we have managed them. We cut down forests, but we also plant. We are not unified enough in all this... and some people still live only unto themselves... to fill their own stomachs, so to speak. The fact that we even choose to discuss this matter separates us.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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08-19-2004, 06:00 PM | #196 | |
Mootis per forum
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as they're the disagreements in these thread: I argument ergo I seek for the truth Sorry, everybody. I haven't been able to keep up with this thread. It moves too fast!! . If someone was waiting for a response from me, please tell me... ... like someone was...
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08-19-2004, 06:18 PM | #197 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Lol! (your last sentence!)
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08-19-2004, 06:52 PM | #198 | |
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Sorry to go off-topic, but I made a mess publically, so I need to clean it up publically ...
Quote:
IRex was right when he guessed (very kindly, because he was trying to give me an excuse) that I have some outside stresses going on, and that's why I've been more emotional lately. And I guess I was so emotional that I couldn't see beyond my own hurt to realize that my comments might have hurt Lizra. What I remember about the phone conversation is that you asked about evolution and I responded (IOW, I didn't bring it up). But I could be wrong, and it's obvious that you have that perception of me, regardless of if it's actually true or false. I won't bug you about calling me again. If you want to chat about those things you mentioned, I'd love to chat with you, but I understand if you don't want to talk. I'm sorry for the ways I've hurt you and wish you all the best Well, I hope at least that I'm good for a few laughs here, if nothing else. I care about you guys - you're all so much fun and so bright and kind - I hope you guys can believe me, and I'm sorry for all my faults and hope I haven't hurt anyone too much.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 08-19-2004 at 07:14 PM. |
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08-19-2004, 07:13 PM | #199 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And to go back OT -
I think one of the most relevant comments made here was made by FMiddle - the one about how the people-and-animals-the-same group has a small conception of their own liberty. That really made me think, and I realized a problem that I have with the people-and-animals-the-same and the no-free-will ideas. They may explain things, but what they explain is too small. In a little while, I'm going to go into the next room and play a beautiful, ancient Irish tune on my Celtic harp. Now I would be very interested to hear IRex's explanation of what will happen. I'm gonna pull some quotes from his recent post, as well as some comments from some of his previous posts, to put together how I think he might explain it. Here's the post: Quote:
Is that pretty close to how you would answer? I don't think you're online now, so I'll just continue on ... To repeat, what was explained was accurate and may very well be true; but what it explained was too small. And therefore I believe it is not an accurate explanation, for accurate explanations explain ALL that is observed. What that explanation completely missed was this: that I learned to play the harp because I think it sounds beautiful; and because I think music in general is beautiful; and because my mother whom I love plays the harp; and because it reminds me of Middle Earth, which is a beautiful literary creation; and because I feel pleasure in creating my own arrangements of songs that have been around for centuries and have touched the hearts of countless people; and because I feel pleasure in playing such a intimate instrument (you pull it right into your body to play it, next to your heart, and you can feel the music through the soundboard); and because I feel pleasure in sharing the music with others; and because I am made in the image of God, who is a Creator, and therefore I feel pleasure in creating beautiful things; and it is right and good to create beauty. All that is missed in the purely naturalistic explanation. It's too small. Those things I feel are REAL. They're REAL. They exist; I know first-hand that they exist. And they ARE NOT ACCOUNTED FOR in a naturalistic explanation. Now if the naturalistic crew (whom I love and thoroughly enjoy knowing) really does not see those things I described - the beauty of music, the goodness of creative acts - then their explanation is ENTIRELY SUFFICIENT for them, and is perfectly logical, and they need no other. IT IS RIGHT for them. However, the world that I see and experience contains additional elements, and therefore I need another explanation that takes them into account, too. And I find that Christianity explains the facts that I experience and observe - both the facts accounted for in naturalistic explanations, and those that are NOT accounted for in naturalistic explanations but that I know exist (at least for me).
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 08-19-2004 at 07:19 PM. |
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08-19-2004, 07:22 PM | #200 | |||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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We are not things. |
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