America the Proud?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Lizra
Does anybody still call the french "frogs"?

I had thought about that too. Never really heard it in America - but I remember them being referred to as "frogs" by other people.

[Earniel]

Why would anything be wrong with frogs? *remembers little bulged-eyes creatures fondly*

[Spock]

Yes, Inspector Jap, in almost any Hercule Poirot Mystery.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I had thought about that too. Never really heard it in America - but I remember them being referred to as "frogs" by other people.

Yes...that was a term I heard alot in Europe as a child. Frogs, Limeys, Krauts, and Yanks. I always wondered why frogs? I decided it must be because they ate frogs legs? The other three (beside Yank) were food related terms coined by GI's.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Hasty Ent
I've been thinking about this, and all I can come up with are negative elements that exist in every community, and none of them are bound up in ethnicity...

The Common Agricultural Policy- I know some of the other EU gov'ts support it, but France is the mainstay.

The misery and poverty it causes in Third World countries more than outweighs all the aid given (not to mention jacking up food prices for poorer Europeans.) (and shafting East Europe)

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Hasty Ent
the problem here will be when to stop listing wonderful things about France....

I only wish I could come up with a list like this for the US...

our wine? only fair, and best when a French winemaker/vineyard is involved
fine dining? our contribution has been fast food franchises
cheese? starting to slowly change, but the horror that is sprayed out of a can will be hard to overcome
fashion? maybe we're ok here, I know nothing about clothes
film? there are a few independent filmmakers out there, but they're dwarfed by the presence that is mainstream Hollywood

Any nation that has given the world both jazz and rock and roll has nothing to apologise for.

Film? Kubrick, Scorsese, Coppola, Ford, Huston....

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
The Principal of Seperation of the Powers - was America.

As for what we have given the world - we gave them the Delcaration of Independence, and the Constitution. Everyone talks about their Constitutions and everything - look at WHOSE THEY are based on.

The Founding Fathers did not want to replace arbitrary power exercised from London with arbitrary power exercised from the U.S. capital. So they looked for a new model of government. A primary influence on their thinking was a Frenchman, the Baron de Montesquieu.

In his book, On The Spirit of Laws, published in 1748, Montesquieu argued for the idea of separate but equal powers among the three branches of government. "When the law making and law enforcement powers are united in the same person," he wrote, "there can be no liberty."

James Madison, regarded as the Father of the U.S. Constitution, believed strongly in Montesquieu's vision of the separation of powers and sought to include this principle in the U.S. system.

The Americans were the first nation to implement the idea- which is of course much harder than an individual writing a book.

Most modern European Constitutions and Constitutional theory derives from "The Declaration of the Rights of Man", adopted in 1789 and spread, along with the Napoleonic Code, on the points of French bayonets.

The French Declaration wasn't derived from the American one; they were both expressions of Enlightenment philosophy- the Americans wisely tempered theirs with a healthy skepticism of the merits of democracy.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
The French Declaration wasn't derived from the American one;

OK, I totally blew that one

From the Official Website of the Office of The French President:

The 1789 Declaration of the rights of man and the citizen was inspired by the American Declaration of Independence of 1776.

[LutraMage]

Originally posted by Lizra
Does anybody still call the french "frogs"?

Of course - we do! (ie the British or, if you prefer, Limeys).

Those of you who object to being called 'Yanks' - that's the whole point. All of these terms were originally coined as terms of mild insult and irritation, usually at a time when the country using the phrase was at war with the country to which the phrase was applied. If we just referred to you by a name you like being called ('Americans' I suppose) there wouldn't be much point. However, it's not meant to be really nasty or a genuine insult, honest!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
OK, I totally blew that one

From the Official Website of the Office of The French President:

Well at least you corrected your mistake. I think - whether people like it or not - all modern constitutions and rights are modeled after the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. I think both documents and the fact that the ideals worked for 200+ years is something to be proud of - not to mention that so many countries around the world used the United States as it's model for their governments.

Contrary to a lot of people's opinion - America has succeeded in spreading a lot more than McDonalds and fastfood restaurants around the world.

[Ruinel]

Perhaps we should start posting things that we are proud of as Americans.

I am proud that I live in a diverse country. The vast majority of people are not indiginous to the US. They or their ancestors came to the US from other parts of the world. They have joined here to make it a better place, to improve what was here before them, and to share their heritage with others. I enjoy the different festivals that celebrate the variety of cultures that settled this country, Germans, French, Italians, Middle Easterners, Scandinavians, Spanish, the many Asian cultures, to name only a few. And I am proud that many people have held to their cultures which enrich this country.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Well at least you corrected your mistake. I think - whether people like it or not - all modern constitutions and rights are modeled after the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. I think both documents and the fact that the ideals worked for 200+ years is something to be proud of - not to mention that so many countries around the world used the United States as it's model for their governments.

Contrary to a lot of people's opinion - America has succeeded in spreading a lot more than McDonalds and fastfood restaurants around the world.

Yeah, a couple of things that should have sprung to mind:

Who was the main drafter of the French Declaration?- a certain Marquis de Lafayette.

Who was the American envoy to France at the time, the Marquis' close friend, beside him the whole time?- A certain Mr. Thomas Jefferson.

Think twice, click once


.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
Yeah, a couple of things that should have sprung to mind:

Who was the main drafter of the French Declaration?- a certain Marquis de Lafayette.

Who was the American envoy to France at the time, the Marquis' close friend, beside him the whole time?- A certain Mr. Thomas Jefferson.

Marquis de Lafayette was basically George Washington's adopted son. George Washinton was like a father to him. Also - Lafayette had his home in Paris decarated in American style. I believe he even had his servants dressed as Indians (not to be demeaning - but because he loved America so much). We have many things in the US honoring Lafayette - he became involved in our independence way before France did and he introduced Franklin to a lot of the key people in Paris.

[Ruinel]

And you are proud of.....

[wahine]

Tra- la - la - la - la

America rocks, don't pick a fight, you are basing this thread off of one guys history book who is probably a propagandist.

I agree with Ru, what are YOU proud of?

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Artanis
I associate France with culture. I think French people should be proud of:
Paris. This city is filled with beautiful architecture.
The Declaration of the rights of the Man and the Citizen of 1789.
The principle of the separation of the powers.
Very friendly, helpful and hospitable people.
French movies.
Famous French persons:
Claude Monet. Pierre-Auguste Renoir. Paul Cézanne.
Russeau, Voltaire, Montesquieu, Descartes.
Victor Hugo, Emile Zola.
Marie and Pierre Curie.
To name a few.

Oh, I like that list! I was in Paris just a few weeks ago and you're right, it is beautiful!

Originally posted by Ruinel
Perhaps we should start posting things that we are proud of as Americans

Good idea, but the rest of us might start to feel a bit excluded... So go ahead with your lists, and I'll post why I'm proud to be British (I've said in the past I don't like the word "proud" - but hey, I can change my mind ):

I love:

The fact I can be British and English at the same time.
Our history. It is largely peaceful, honourable, and full of amazing characters.
English literature. Deserves a list of its own - this includes Shakespeare, people!
Other aspects of British culture - music, art, architecture etc.
The fact that we have a monarchy and we managed to reduce their powers without cutting their heads off.
Our constitution and political system.
The way people don't feel the need to display their patriotism all the time, but when they do, it counts.
The English weather.

That's all I can think of right now. There's more. Thanks for listening

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by sun-star
English literature. Deserves a list of its own - this includes Shakespeare, people!

Here here! Shakespeare rocks!

The fact that we have a monarchy and we managed to reduce their powers without cutting their heads off.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but wasn't King Charles I beheaded? I'm not really familiar with your history so I'm not sure.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Here here! Shakespeare rocks!
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but wasn't King Charles I beheaded? I'm not really familiar with your history so I'm not sure.

Yes - and they threw out the Monarchy.

As for Sun-Stars patriotism comment - seems like that was a crack at Americans. I am proud that we can be patriotic whenever we want and don't have to justify it. We our mostly proud and patriotic because we defeated the greatest power on earth at the time and created a free and democratic country. We are patriotic because we are immigrants (I myself am only 3rd or 4th generation) and our ancestors may huge sacrifices to get here and give us a better life in America.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
As for Sun-Stars patriotism comment - seems like that was a crack at Americans....

I don't think Sun-Star's comments were meant to be a crack against Americans, I didn't take it like that at all.

I like your reasons to be proud though.

[Ornelírë Mistë]

Proud? Proud!?I'm not in the least bit proud of my country. As a minor, I have no say in this government. If it were up to me, there would be a great woodlands with people living there, in the wild. Many of them with just a backpack of stuff. I'd be among them. I don't like saying I'm American. I like saying I have English ancestors, and Italian, German, and Irish. I'd move if I could.

I think people are proud of our democracy. It was the first modern one, it is commendable- but do not let us forget the blood shed by us. Let us not fail to realise other governments established in Europe which are more efficient. I'm all for socialism, but that wouldn't work here.

EDIT: what sense of nations and borders and patriotism? we are all human, we might take pride in our collective whole and learn from our collective mistakes. i understand the desire to be recognized in a group- I do desire this. if only this could be without a lack of faith in humanity.

SECOND EDIT: I am odd, but I don't want the world in the woods! I'm not even suggesting that there be a forest where people can live!