Polictical Correctness

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by inked

Nurv, this differs markedly from the behaviour of the EU in casting down a renowned leader because he confessed his faith's position regarding homosexuality IN WHAT WAY?

Who with the what now?

I really must go to bed, my comprehension is getting low... I was just commenting that I don't think a law where people are forced to demonstrate their religion would stand in Canada (whether this is occuring elsewhere in the world or not).

Originally Posted by inked

You really must recall that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander!

You know... I never understood that expression, even at high comprehension moments.
*eats sauce*

[Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I really must go to bed, my comprehension is getting low... I was just commenting that I don't think a law where people are forced to demonstrate their religion would stand in Canada (whether this is occuring elsewhere in the world or not).

I believe what Inked is trying to point out is this:

You comment that a law forcing people to demonstrate their religion would be 'scary'. But you don't seem to notice the virtually identical laws that have been passed around the world preventing people from demonstrating their faith.

If forcing people to say 'merry christmas' strikes a nerve with you, consider this - Two girls in minnesota were reprimanded this december for saying “Merry Christmas” in a school skit. Shouldn't that strike you as equally scary?

[inked]

Thank you, Wayfarer!

You know the old saw about the horse and the water, right?

I fear I deal with hydrophobic equines!


Nurv, please note #164 and #168 in this thread !

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

I believe what Inked is trying to point out is this:

You comment that a law forcing people to demonstrate their religion would be 'scary'. But you don't seem to notice the virtually identical laws that have been passed around the world preventing people from demonstrating their faith.

If forcing people to say 'merry christmas' strikes a nerve with you, consider this - Two girls in minnesota were reprimanded this december for saying “Merry Christmas” in a school skit. Shouldn't that strike you as equally scary?

Yes! It does strike me as equally scary - I didn't realize this happened in the United States! I do realize people are persecuted for their religion in some countries, and I think it's awful. (I didn't comment because it seems to be getting OT.)

[sun-star]

Originally Posted by inked

For the instigation of my bugbear, I must refer you to the EU thread original and the split-off thread on Islamic influence in EU. As to my reaction, if you'll pardon the pomposity of the assertion, if you all want to grow up to be the united states of Europe, I think it matters very much.

Well, not all of us do. And 'grow up to be'? That is indeed pompous, and patronising too.

And apparently the inclusion of Christian influence and/or its exclusion is a hot topic on the 'Moot - else why a thread such as EU Kicks A** ? If I may be so bold as to inquire?

The issues about the EU are not solely or even mainly related to its religious agenda, either on the Moot or in real life. Of the many threads there have been on the EU at the Moot over the years, the vast majority of the 'hot topic' debates and issues are constitutional, not religious. This is also true of European politics in general. You appear to believe that the EU is obsessed with suppressing religion, whereas in fact religious decisions are entirely up to individual countries.

And your own newpapers apparently think it at least newsworthy enough to attempt sale of papers by what many describe as entrenched yellow rag journalism (to use and Americanism).

Huh? Tabloids use a story to sell newspapers therefore it's important?

[Spock]

...so it's an evergreen, a Hannuka Bush, a Christmas Tree; but the federal holiday which everyone takes and most get paid for is called Christmas....Moses and Mohammed had louy p.r. people and so we don't all get off for their days.

[inked]

of interest...perhaps!

Teachers' fears over Christmas
17 December 2004

Teachers have raised fears that Christmas is being cancelled in schools across the country after a poll found dwindling support for traditional celebrations.

A quarter of teachers said their schools would not be holding a carol service this year, the poll for the Times Educational Supplement found.

And one in seven primary teachers said their schools would not stage a nativity play, the survey of 789 teachers in England and Wales found.

Half of those surveyed said their schools were holding celebrations with no religious content, the paper reported.

The findings concerned the Association of Christian Teachers (ACT).

Chris Alloway, a London ACT representative, told the TES: "Increasingly we are celebrating all other world religions, making sure we are not offending anyone, but then not acknowledging our own - even at Christmas.

"Christmas in our schools is just being eroded away."

But a spokesman for the Church of England insisted that nativity plays and carol services were "alive and well".

"Nativity plays are held in almost all primary schools including those with many children from different faith backgrounds," he said.

"An overwhelming majority of primary and secondary schools hold carol concerts as part of the generally high level of religious observance related to Christmas."

[Nurvingiel]

My primary school never held a nativity play, and I don't think it was a loss. We had a Christmas Pageant and we would sing carols, do a Christmas themed play (Santa, Charlie Brown Christmas etc.) It was great fun!

[Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Yes! It does strike me as equally scary - I didn't realize this happened in the United States! I do realize people are persecuted for their religion in some countries, and I think it's awful. (I didn't comment because it seems to be getting OT.)

Okay then. See, the problem with the institution of PCness, as can be pointed out with a wide variety of examples, is that it's extremely one sided - PCness works overtime whenever there is the slightest hint that something like christmas might be being 'forced' upon people (by displaying a christmas tree), yet are conspicuously absent when people are censored and have their rights violated.

Nurv, you said:

Political correctess is often totally bland, because anything with a goal to not offend anyone will result in a porrige-with-no-salt-type neutrality.

The claim is that Political Correctness has as its goal the complete removal of anything that is offensive. Yet, given the case record of where PCness has been applied, it becomes obvious that that claim isn't true. Politcal Correctness is applied exclusively to censor and suppress those who certain institutions dissagree with. This is why, for example, it's perfectly allright to talk about Hannukuh, Ramadan, or Kwanza, and to display a Menorah or a Star and Crescent, but having a Nativity Scene out for Christmas is off-limits. Political Correctness is merely a tool for oppression.

[Hemel]

And one in seven primary teachers said their schools would not stage a nativity play, the survey of 789 teachers in England and Wales found.

Hooray. Because in my experience they are so unbearably boring!

[Wayfarer]

Okay. The whole discussion about Political Correctness in regards to Christmas reminded me of a very funny article I read in USN&WR a few years back. I actually found a copy online - it was written by John Leo (if anyone has heard of him. He frequently writes about political correctness).
Anyway. I thought I'd share it. Here you go.

Merry C*********S to all!
'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house,
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.
The stockings were hung by the chimney with care,
In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there.
When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter.
There was Santa again, on his annual journeys,
Ensnared in a group of eight tiny attorneys.
They looked pretty grim and they threatened to sue,
So we knew in a flash -- "It's the ACLU!"
They paid us no heed, but went straight to their work,
Handcuffing poor Santa, then said with a smirk:
"This is secular airspace, we can't have a saint
"Flying our flightpaths -- we need some restraint.
"A sleigh full of toys is OK, we suppose,
"But faith-based incursions we've got to oppose."
Litigation on Christmas is something we dread,
So we nestled our children all under their beds
The grinch doesn't scare them, and Scrooge they see through,
But what kids are prepared for the ACLU?
The reindeer were shackled as a further incitement,
Then the lawyers unpackaged a 12-count indictment.
"Merry Christmas to all!" they just had to foreclose
(Though they had no complaint about all the "Ho Hos").
One lawyer objected to Santa's red clothing.
"It's religiously tainted," he said with some loathing.
"Poinsettias (the red ones) everybody must note, are
"A church-state offense in St. Paul, Minnesota!"
Santa's climb up each chimney (one lawyer made mention)
is a symbolic reference to Jesus' ascension.
And the reindeer, of course, recall the Apostles,
And those who deny it are nothing but fossils.
These lawyers had labored at neighborhood schools,
Making Christmas extinct there as part of the rules.
Praise Kwaanza or Ramadan -- they think it's quite splendid,
But say "Merry Christmas" and you might get suspended.
Our children, God bless them, don't get or recall
Why "inclusiveness" doesn't include them at all,
Why diversity theory (as the lawyers insist) must
Require the annual quashing of Christmas.
In Canada, home of post-everything living,
Now "The 12 Days of Christmas" are "The 12 Days of Giving."
Christmas trees aren't part of their season at all,
They buy "multicultural trees" at the mall.
At a hospital (Catholic) the staff is ashamed
To use the word Christmas, so their tree is misnamed
As a "care tree," though some would prefer "tree of life."
(Why not "tall lit-up flora" to avoid any strife?)
Australians are told they should have no compunctions
Calling parties at Christmastime "end-of-year functions."
The idea is to make Christmas somehow unmentionable,
A tactic I think of as wholly contemptionable.
Instead of "White Christmas" they will probably sing,
"I'm dreaming of a snow day some time in pre-spring."
Here's my suggestion, a harsh one I fear,
Why not call Christmas "Christmas"? (It's just an idea.)
Merry Christmas, everyone!

BTW, Here is where I got it from. Very amusing, I thought.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Hemel

Hooray. Because in my experience they are so unbearably boring!

indeed, and no matter what part i would go for, i always got the part of 'narrator', grr at teachers , they said it was because i had a large voice, i think they just didn't like me!! my point, i think, is i took part in the such like, and was being brought up atheist at the time - it hasn't turned me christian, i just respect the other faiths of this, and other, lands, if you get my drift am i rambling?

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

The claim is that Political Correctness has as its goal the complete removal of anything that is offensive. Yet, given the case record of where PCness has been applied, it becomes obvious that that claim isn't true. Politcal Correctness is applied exclusively to censor and suppress those who certain institutions dissagree with. This is why, for example, it's perfectly allright to talk about Hannukuh, Ramadan, or Kwanza, and to display a Menorah or a Star and Crescent, but having a Nativity Scene out for Christmas is off-limits. Political Correctness is merely a tool for oppression.

Good point, but in my original comment, I was thinking of "I'm dreaming of a snow-day some time in pre-spring" rather than more dangerous things like disguised oppression. Though I think PCness is more affirmative action than oppresion. (Not that I agree with that either.)

Great poem, ho ho ho out loud!

[Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Good point, but in my original comment, I was thinking of "I'm dreaming of a snow-day some time in pre-spring" rather than more dangerous things like disguised oppression. Though I think PCness is more affirmative action than oppresion. (Not that I agree with that either.)

Great poem, ho ho ho out loud!

Ho, Ho, Ho, Merry Christmas.

The fundamental problem is, Nurvingiel, not with people who would rather say "I'm dreaming of a snow-day some time in pre-spring". It's with those people being able to prevent anybody from saying anything different. That is what political correctness is - not just affirmitive action (the favoring of certain groups over others) but the downright persecution of certain segments of the population of the favored groups.

[Nurvingiel]

True, it is merely annoying, and not a problem, to try to make everything neutral and bland.

Can you persecute a majority? Does this happen in Canada, because I've never noticed it. (Me not noticing it doesn't mean it doesn't occur, but it suggests it's not common in British Columbia anyway.)

[Elfhelm]

At my daughter's public high school on thursday night I had the pleasure of sitting through 2 1/2 hours of holiday music that included Christian and Jewish songs, as well as secular ditties like Let It Snow. And we are about 90% liberal in southeast Portland. We believe in "inclusion" not "exclusion".

[inked]

Hey, no Kwaanza music? No Muslim winter tunes? JUST HOW INCLUSIVE ARE YOU THERE IN PORTLAND?

[Insidious Rex]

Hey, Hey, Hey, Morbidly Obese Albert Is Coming Your Way

HAMILTON, Ontario (Wireless Flash) -- Obesity is taking a bite out of the upcoming movie "Fat Albert."

Experts in the fitness field want to see the movie's name changed to "Morbidly Obese Albert" to reflect the sign of the times.

One expert throwing his weight around is Robert Kennedy, publisher of "Oxygen" fitness magazine for women and "MuscleMag International."

Kennedy says obesity has taken over in the last few years, and he credits the fast food and soft-drink industry as the culprits.

Kennedy admits raising awareness isn't anything new but hopes speaking out on pop culture items like the "Fat Albert" movie "gets peoples' attention."

He says "it does jump down the throat" and it "gets publicity," but he believes more is still needed.

Sadly, he says people "know they should eat an egg-white omelette and oatmeal" but they just don't seem to be doing it.

"Fat Albert" -- or, as Kennedy prefers, "Morbidly Obese Albert" -- opens in theaters Dec. 25.

Frankly, Id rather be called fat then morbidly obese.

[Lizra]

No kidding! In my mind.....
Fat = fat...whatever...just fat
morbidly obese = huge, montrous, hanging buckets of fat that are going to kill you! I've been seeing more and more of this type of thing lately though! And I guess fat Albert qualifies.....but it makes him NOT very "funny" anymore....

[Wayfarer]

Kennedy says obesity has taken over in the last few years, and he credits the fast food and soft-drink industry as the culprits.

Notice how he says absoulutely nothing about the fact that two (?) years ago, the FDA completely changed the system used to calculate who is 'obese' and who isn't.