05-24-2002, 11:54 PM | #1 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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Feminism
I was speaking with a female one time and i said that she was one cool girl and she took umbrage at it.
She felt that it belittled her some how. what are your thoughts on this and feminism in general
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
05-25-2002, 12:05 AM | #2 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Equality, and empowerment. That's about it. Playing word games is just plain silly. At the end of the day, they're just words; whats the point in getting offended by them?
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05-25-2002, 04:36 AM | #3 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Merry old England
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Don't get me wrong, I am all for equality for women, yes, equal oppertunities, yes equal treatment, agreed.
However, I do think feminism has gone too far, a lot of what feminism has become is not equality, it is propaganda about female superiority, a lot of supposedly 'feminist' television shows are merely an exuse to be anti-men. Before I get too heated on that I'll move on. As I'm sure you're all familiar with the British SAS are considered to be the best special forces unit in the world, the training course for them is, therefore, extraordinarily tough and hugely challenging. Now, about 95% of the SAS are men. The reason? The average female simply cannot handle, in terms of brute strength and determinatin, the training course. So there was an outcry. All of a sudden feminists were campaigning for the training course to be made easier so women could complete it. This is nonsensical, surely? As dumbing it down would not be giving them equal oppertunities, would it? Doing this would have an influx of those not worthy (I mean in terms of strength, stamina and fitness I do not mean that women are unworthy, do not misinterpret that please) to join the SAS joining. So conclude, maybe its time for a douse of masculinism?
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05-25-2002, 05:05 AM | #4 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Men are stronger. Accept it. Fact of Life.
Women are for making children. Not designed for fighting etc.. Doesnt mean you cant, it just means females have a harder time generally. Dont get all this girl power thing. I say enjoy the fact that men are supposed to pay for meals and hold open doors. there is a certain point when it gets out of hand for instance being sacked for being a woman. I think that women should have equal oppurtunities and never be denied the right to do what a man does but maybe they should also accept that some jobs where designed for the male gene. And dont flameme for i am a female, not a male.
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05-25-2002, 07:49 AM | #5 |
Elven Warrior
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Yes, but it's getting other people to realise this that is the problem. Most other females harbour feminist thoughts at sometime or other, but there, as Strawberry says, comes a point when you have to realise that the basis of feminism gives room for flaw. They want women to do whatever men do. At the time of the Suffragettes here in GB, builders were lower-class. Now the class system has been abolished as a means of distinguishing people from others, most women couldn't say that they would ACTUALLY like to be a builder or a roadsweeper or something like that, because it's a man's job. So basically they're living in the past when a cleaner, etc, was a LOWER-CLASS person's job and it wasn't just about gender as it is today.
I won't flame you, Strawb, because I think that you're right.
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05-25-2002, 08:06 AM | #6 |
The man
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I'm for equality of course, and I think feminism did a lot of good in the past. However, with any radical change to the system there are always negative side affects, and feminism has had quite its share. For one there's what you speak of, taking it way too far. In one episode of the West Wing Sam Seborn compliments the gorgeous Ainsley Hayes on an amazing (backless) dress. An intern at his office takes offense, saying his words were demeaning. Being a really good friend to Ainsley, he takes this to heart, and goes to her about it. She informs him that compliments like this actually make her feel better, make her feel empowered. That's right, just because you're a feminist doesn't mean you can't be a looker, or let people appreciate your hotness in a respectful manner.
Also, there's the issue of how feminism has affected men, specifically very young men and boys. Classroom dynamics as a whole have changed completely. Teachers, mostly male, are affraid of being accused of being sexist (I kid you not) if they don't give enough attention to the girls, and because of this they often favor the female students. Also, female teachers who obviously feel closer to their female students favor them. There's a very clear reason for the decline of male performance as compared to female performance in education, and sadly this doesn't seem to be changing very rapidly. |
05-25-2002, 08:39 AM | #7 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
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AE, you seem like such a nice guy, if you told me I was a really cool woman I'd be flattered and smiling inside! I'm definitely a feminist, but that means I consider myself an intellectual equal to men, not the bimbo coffeemaker. (Though I will happily make your coffee if I like you.) Feminism has gotten a bad rap by some of the angry diesel dyke types. Sexism was so horrible in the past, young girls today probably wouldn't believe it! Being a woman is very, very cool, but I cringe when I see all the booty videos and overtly sexual youth movies. Young women should not be made to feel so desperate to have a boyfriend that they need to dress like sluts. Something's gone wrong somewhere but dealing with raging hormones is tough.
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05-25-2002, 10:44 AM | #8 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tring, Herts, England
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Quote:
Anyway, afro-elf, the girl you were talking to has a very strange idea of feminism. To me and my friends, it means that jobs should be distributed due to ability not gender. Just saying a girl looks hot, unless you were being sexually explicit (which I doubt ), shouldn't be able to give offence. Most girls would be flattered!!!
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Entmoot Resident Bard #2 Wielder of the shiny fire extinguisher Worshipper of the divine cheesecake Hamsters and Rangers everywhere, rejoice!!! Minsc, Baldur's Gate 2 Children, don't take drugs. Become a pop star, then people give them to you for free!!! - Billy Mack, Love Actually. While I'm sure the nice people from the local archery club meant well, a moment's consideration would have made them realise that giving my friend and I lethal weapons was probably not a good idea! Dammit, eyeliner and dreadlocks should not be that sexy! |
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05-25-2002, 11:05 AM | #9 |
Enting
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Oklahoma
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I can't see how calling someone a cool girl could possibly be construed as demeaning. I mean, she didn't want to be called a cool guy, did she?!!! That's one thing I've noticed about feminism taken too far, the women who do that seem to think there is something demeaning about being a woman and being treated as a woman. I believe that women should be treated with honor and respect as equal to men but not as if they are the same as men. I'm proud of being a woman and I see no reason to try to act like a man or demand to be treated like a man. I can't understand women who basically want to BE a man. The truth is a woman makes a second rate man (just as a man trying to be feminine makes a second rate woman.) Why not be a first rate woman instead? If a woman is really feminist (in its basic meaning of pro-woman) then why not glory in the beauty of womanhood and its unique qualities as separate from manhood?
I agree with what several of you have said about unfairness toward men in our society. It's ironic that the very women who want to be like men, don't treat men as equals or respect their manhood. If only we women would admire the womanhood in ourselves and the manhood in men. There, I've had my little say! I'm sure no one can tell this is a soap box of mine. |
05-25-2002, 11:21 AM | #10 |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
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Another disturbing issue. In writings "he, his, him, himself, etc" used to be used when speaking in general about a person that could be a member of either gender. This was never sexist, it was simply proper grammar. Now, many many writers are replacing this with "she, hers, her, herself, etc" in order to appease the feminists. This is lunacy. That's not equality, that's taking something that was never sexist in the first place and making it sexist by actually caring. If you really want to be gender neutral, write "he/she", or adopt a new usage of "they" which some people have done. However, those are both unnesecary, since "he" can mean either/or in the general sense.
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05-25-2002, 12:13 PM | #11 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Good point Darth Tater.
A lot of people in my class get all hett up if somethign says 'he shall not do this!' when referring to mankind. MANkind. Its general. accept it. Certainly doesnt bother me. Its not as if female things are always weak though. remember all countries and ships are referred to as 'her'!
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05-25-2002, 12:48 PM | #12 |
Elf Lord
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My history teacher told us something interesting about the word 'history'.
His...story. Then he preced to say some feminists (and this is no joke) want to change it to herstory. Idiocy.
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05-25-2002, 01:33 PM | #13 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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I remember reading that there's a feminist movement underway in europe which claims that stand-up urinals are sexist, and that standing while urinating is (quote) 'almost an act of voilence against women'.
ANy of you over-seasers want to comment on this?
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05-25-2002, 05:44 PM | #14 | |
The Rogue Elf
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Quote:
If you can do it - then DO it. Anyone agree? Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 05-25-2002 at 05:50 PM. |
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05-25-2002, 05:59 PM | #15 |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 4,572
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ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I haven't had that good of a laugh in ages, thanks Wayfarer!
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05-25-2002, 06:57 PM | #16 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
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Quote:
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05-26-2002, 06:17 AM | #17 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In my jeans
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violence?
How is that an act of violence??! That's ridiculous!!!
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05-26-2002, 09:00 AM | #18 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
05-26-2002, 09:08 AM | #19 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tring, Herts, England
Posts: 582
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Ok, the writer of that website worries me. She seems to have extremist views on everything, and only looks at the bad side of things. Reading the articles on that website made me feel ill.
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Entmoot Resident Bard #2 Wielder of the shiny fire extinguisher Worshipper of the divine cheesecake Hamsters and Rangers everywhere, rejoice!!! Minsc, Baldur's Gate 2 Children, don't take drugs. Become a pop star, then people give them to you for free!!! - Billy Mack, Love Actually. While I'm sure the nice people from the local archery club meant well, a moment's consideration would have made them realise that giving my friend and I lethal weapons was probably not a good idea! Dammit, eyeliner and dreadlocks should not be that sexy! |
05-26-2002, 09:11 AM | #20 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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Really? They gave me a glimmer of hope that not all humans are idiots.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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