05-22-2002, 08:42 AM | #1 |
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feanor a villian
I could have forgiven feanor for all things save for dying command he knew that his sons could not win and he doomed them all ( all people of ME) with his dying wish
to doom yourself is one thing but to drag your children and an entire population is unforgiveable sort of like osama dooming all of afghanistan it seems tolkien reoccurring sins are pride and greed
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
05-22-2002, 11:16 AM | #2 | |
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Re: feanor a villian
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05-22-2002, 05:15 PM | #3 |
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i believe they swore the oath at tirion.
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05-22-2002, 05:49 PM | #4 |
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I think he's the bad guy even without his dying wish. It would have been better had he died at birth.
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05-22-2002, 06:01 PM | #5 |
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i dont think he was a villain. i believe his pride sometimes got in the way of wisdom like what happened when he swore the oath. i believe he had such pride that people often mistakes him as a villain. aye, if they had not swore their oath many woes wouldnt have occured. But even less woes wouldnt have happened if the two trees werent created by yavanna. blame yavanna! not feanor!
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05-22-2002, 06:15 PM | #6 |
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I think we should give some of the blame to Feanor's mother.
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05-22-2002, 07:30 PM | #7 |
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Why is that? (I have just been reading it, so I am looking for some good "analysis" ).
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05-22-2002, 10:00 PM | #8 | ||
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Quote:
From the Silmarillion: Quote:
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05-22-2002, 10:16 PM | #9 |
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but that would mean no finrod
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
05-22-2002, 10:21 PM | #10 | |
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05-23-2002, 02:16 PM | #11 |
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Okay, but I saw her "illness" as more an involuntary thing, I wouldn't have thought to blame her, but perhaps if she had endured he wouldn't have had the jealousy or what have you. Still, if he reacted that way, perhaps he was already predisposed to being an "upstart" and would have been the same even if she had been there?
I would place more blame on the father, I mean, he could have waited a while longer to remarry, it's not like he didn't have eternity! |
05-23-2002, 02:28 PM | #12 | |
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05-23-2002, 02:40 PM | #13 |
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from The Silmarillion
"The love of Finwë and MÃ*riel was great and glad, for it began in the Blessed Realm in the Days of Bliss. But in the bearing of her son MÃ*riel was consumed in spirit and body; and after his birth she yearned for release from the labour of living. And when she had named him, she said to Finwë: "Never again shall I bear child; for strength that would have nourished the life of many has gone forth into Fëanor.'" it goes on saying: "..and he said: "Surely there is healing in Aman? Here all weariness can find rest." then she went to Lórien and "lay down to sleep; but though she seemed to sleep, her spirit indeed departed from her body, and passed in silence to the Halls of Mandos."
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05-25-2002, 05:55 AM | #14 | |
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now really no one could blame Yavanna. I could blame Feanor that didn't want to give the Valar the Silmarilion, and Melkor that stole them and destroyed the trees. We can't blame Feanor's mother on something bad she didn't expect from her powers will kill her son and lots of the the Noldor. |
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05-25-2002, 02:38 PM | #15 |
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I agree it is absurd to blame Yavanna. What she did was good and she did it for good reasons.
But I don't agree that MÃ*riel Þerindë was blameless. Manwë and Mandos and other Valar agreed that MÃ*riel was not blameless. She was tainted in some way, because death is for Elves unnatural. If an Elf craves death and dies willingly it is usually (I would think Lúthien is among the exceptions) because of some taint in the fëa or "soul". The death of MÃ*riel was described as the first sign of the shadow that would fall on the Blessed Land. Finwe even begged MÃ*riel to return, but she never did, really uncaring about his suffering, thinking only of herself. Everything turned out alright in the end for Finwe and MÃ*riel*, but MÃ*riel caused a lot of suffering. She didn't mean to cause everyone grief and it's not entirely her fault there was a problem with her fea, but she was cold and indifferent in the face of a valid plea from one who loved her and from one whom she loved. For all she knew she was dooming Finwe to be forever sundered from her, and alone, because Elves never remarried. Anyway you spin it, we're talking about agony until the End. That is what she should be blamed for, in my proud opinion. Ultimately, the blame always goes back to Melkor Moriñgotho, the Dark Enemy who planted the first seed of evil in himself, that first seed of evil that spread like wildfire. All evil goes back to him. *Supposedly when Finwe died they met again and dwelt together in the Halls of Mandos or the House of Vaire, until the end of Time. It is implied in the Peoples of Middle-earth, the Shibboleth of Fëanor, that this did not cause Indis grief.
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Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ñólendil : 05-25-2002 at 02:46 PM. |
05-26-2002, 11:45 AM | #16 | |
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i was being sarcastic thought you woulda know for the " "
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05-26-2002, 12:41 PM | #17 |
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edit: error
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
05-26-2002, 03:02 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
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05-26-2002, 03:55 PM | #19 |
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Tar-Elendil, thanks for clearing that up. I don't put much in the smileys. I've heard some pretty cooky ideas here before so I really wouldn't be surprized if someone wanted to blame Yavanna for the Fall of the Noldor. Tom Bombadil is, after all, Tulkas, isn't he?
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Falmon -- Dylan |
05-26-2002, 04:00 PM | #20 |
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lol
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