09-27-2015, 04:20 AM | #1 | |
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“a verse long known in Elven-lore”
Quote:
Sauron engraved two lines upon the Ring: One Ring to rule them all. One Ring to find them,We can safely assume he composed those two lines himself: they are part of the spell he used to bind the Rings of Power to himself in order to dominate and control their wearers. But the Rings of Power were intended for Elves, at least by their makers, for Sauron did not make them himself: he aided and guided the Noldor of Eregion. They had no intention of giving the Nine or the Seven to Men and Dwarves; though Celebrimbor gave the greatest of the Seven to his friend Durin III of Khazad-dûm, probably as Sauron and his army drew near Eregion and after he dispensed of the Three to Gil-galad and Galadriel. So my question is: Did Sauron make the eight-line poem of lore, with Celebrimbor and the Elven-smiths hearing and remembering it, passing it along to their kinsfolk to remember? Or did the surviving Noldor -- or possibly even the Dúnedain of Arnor -- wrap the two-line curse into the other six to make recollection easier? |
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09-27-2015, 10:44 AM | #2 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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I think the latter. I think much of what came to pass (which Rings went to whom) came well after the forging of the One Ring. And I don't know if Sauron would have cared to compose the rest of the poem. Or - if he had - if the Elves would make it part of their lore.
My first thought is that perhaps the Elves composed it on the eve of the first War of the Ring, at the end of the Second Age. Or else - if the actual words on the Ring were unknown to any but Sauron - perhaps someone else knew what Isildur read on the Ring and composed the rest, whether Elf or Man. Or - maybe even Isildur composed the rest himself, and it somehow came to be known among the Elves. Great question! I like it!
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09-27-2015, 04:11 PM | #3 |
Elven Warrior
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"out of a thicket of young trees an Elf stepped, clad in grey, but with his hood thrown back; his hair glinted like gold in the morning sun." Lothlórien
That guy |
09-28-2015, 03:48 PM | #4 | |
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Quote:
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“Faërie contains many things besides elves and fays, and besides dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants, or dragons; it holds the seas, the sun, the moon, the sky; and the earth, and all things that are in it: tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted.” - JRRT. "On Faerie-Stories" |
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09-28-2015, 11:47 PM | #5 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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I had forgotten that - but I think you're right. Celebrimbor heard him audibly, didn't he? I first remembered that "he was aware of him" - but yes, I think he heard the words. I'll have to dig up which account (or does someone know).
In that case - I'd say somewhere along a little later in the Second Age. After Sauron had distributed the Nine and the Seven (or the rest of the Seven, if we're protecting Durin's Folk).
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09-29-2015, 12:37 AM | #6 | |||
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In Fellowship of the Ring, “The Council of Elrond”,
Quote:
Quote:
But when Gandalf told the Council of Elrond about his reading the scroll of Isildur and seeing the inscription upon the One Ring, the inscription by which he positively identified Frodo’s ring as Sauron’s ring, he told them (with my bolding), Quote:
So who do you think wrote the rest of the Ring-verse, Nerwen? |
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02-14-2016, 07:22 AM | #7 |
Elf Lord
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I've a fancy (and a notion) it might be from the 'Lay of Gil-Galad'. It's certainly 'A verse long known in Elven Lore', and it uses an almost exact same phrase:
'In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows are' The last word 'are' is clearly different, but even from the little snippet that Samwise knows (or chose to remember) from Bilbo's full translation of the 'Lay of Gil-Galad'... the similarities are exceptionally clear - also, its worth noting that at this point in the lay the word 'are' rhymes within the structure, as does 'lie' in the more famous excerpt: Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die, …One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. So we have one Verse long known in Elven Lore, which deals directly with the relevant period and subject matter, and shares exceptionally close style and composition, and even shares the same flowerly 'travel guide' phrase describing Mordor.. (it's shadowy there you know!). As to the ring, i agree with Alcuin's supposition that only the two lines: One Ring to rule them all. One Ring to find them, …One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them were the actual spell and therefore were what Celebrimbor actually heard. I believe there is no doubt Celebrimbor actually heard it and became aware then, but i'd also contend further, that Sauron is an unlikely sort of chap to go into overly long nor flowery poetry... and therefore, that the two lines quoted above (that are indeed the only ones actually on the ring) pretty much say everything he needs for the spell! It would also be more than enough for Celebrimbor to know clearly what was afoot. Therefore its my belief that Sauron spoke these words as the binding spell for the one Ring, which were engraved onto the ring itself: One Ring to rule them all. One Ring to find them, …One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them Celebrimbor literally heard the words and became aware. The Lay of Gil-Galad a verse long known in Elven Lore, tells of this, explaining the events leading up to his death in Mordor ( btw, it's shadowy there..so if ever planning a visit, take a torch! Also note flying on eagles may be faster than walking..just a travel tip ) Here is the only part of a much longer Lay that Samwise remembers from the Chapter 'A Knife in the dark' ~~~~~*****~~~~~ Gil-galad was an Elven-king. Of him the harpers sadly sing: the last whose realm was fair and free between the Mountains and the Sea. His sword was long, his lance was keen, his shining helm afar was seen; the countless stars of heaven's field were mirrored in his silver shield. But long ago he rode away, and where he dwelleth none can say; for into darkness fell his star in Mordor where the shadows are. ~~~~~*****~~~~~ Therefore its my belief it is from the 'Lay of Gil Galad' that Gandalf is quoting. Last edited by Butterbeer : 02-14-2016 at 07:31 AM. Reason: no rhyme nor reason :D |
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