10-01-2013, 09:52 PM | #1 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Internet
Posts: 803
|
U.S. Government Shutdown
Is anyone else disturbed by this? Most people I talk to don't seem to care, as long as they aren't the ones suddenly out of work for an indeterminate amount of time or cheated out of a vacation to D.C./a natural park. I'm also curious what the rest of the world thinks of this embarrassing predicament Americans are in.
__________________
Don't be hasty! Thanks so much to Last Child of Ungoliant, Twista, and BeardofPants for my avatar! |
10-02-2013, 01:24 PM | #2 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Well Im here in DC, just a few blocks from Pennsylvania Avenue and the National Mall so of course its having a bigger impact here locally. Theres definitely less people on the buses when I go home from work and you can see things gated off as you pass through downtown that would normally be available.
I think its really pitiful that its come to this and Im so disgusted that a few dozen wackos in the Republican House have essentially taken the entire country hostage because they cant accept that Obamacare has been legally and fairly made the law of the land (and ratified by the Supreme Court!). This is governing? Screwing over millions of people who wont have a salary or who will have vacation plans dashed or VETs who need to have their cases processed. Destroying our credit rating? Undermining our economy? All because they refuse as a rule to ever go along with anything Obama does? And how about what a spineless coward Boehner is for not gathering together the 100+ republican moderates into a coalition that could easily push through a clean CR but he is so afraid of the tea party anarchists in his party that he lets them run the show. Pathetic unforgivable spineless and gutless... And I blame gerrymandering for this. Gerrymandering has destroyed our nation's ability to govern rationally. Now any wack job can get elected and never fear losing their seat because the district lines are drawn ridiculously to game the system. We will never hope to get anywhere until that system comes to an end.
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
10-04-2013, 02:30 AM | #3 |
Elf Lady
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the lands where mountains are but a fairytale
Posts: 8,588
|
What I think ridiculous is the scaring people tactics the Republicans employ. I've seen status updates that calculate that some people will have to pay over 5000 dollars per month to insurance and if they don't their taxes will go up, their houses will be confiscated etc. That is simply not legal so how they can say and even believe that stuff!?
And leaving a country in disarray because someone is trying to do something for the entire country, not just the lucky few, is ridiculous in any case.
__________________
Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"... |
10-06-2013, 12:57 PM | #4 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Internet
Posts: 803
|
I figured that it was a no-brainer that a govt shutdown is far worse than either alternative (Obamacare/no Obamacare). However, I have recently heard of people who are writing to their representatives to NOT compromise on this issue - and some of these very people are the ones who have just had their jobs suspended with no promise of backpay! Additionally, some who have been severely affected by the shutdown believe that the politicians are not to blame, and that the fragmented views of the American people have caused the stalemate. I thought these perspectives were quite interesting, and the latter has made me reconsider supporting impeachment of all involved in the shutdown a la Australia. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...in-parliament/
__________________
Don't be hasty! Thanks so much to Last Child of Ungoliant, Twista, and BeardofPants for my avatar! |
10-06-2013, 05:06 PM | #5 |
Faithful Gardener
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: I walk here and there, they say...
Posts: 3,603
|
Hey, now. It's not necessarily the Republicans' fault. The Democrats are being equally stubborn - they were provided with a spending bill that allowed money for everything to continue operating, with the exception of ObamaCare (see this article - it's got some other good points too).
I am not a fan of ObamaCare, and I am not a wealthy person by any means. My husband and I live basically hand-to-mouth, and paying for insurance would be extremely hard on us. However, despite this, I would rather deal with the hardship because with a competitive market, there's a possibility for us to better ourselves. Honestly, I can't tell which would be worse personally for me - the continuation of ObamaCare into a more and more socialist USA or a default on the national debt in the middle of a government shutdown. But I can pretty much unequivocally say which would be objectively worse for my country (which I happen to love). Hmm... but expounding on that might get me moved to another thread or something. Suffice it to say that while I am certainly worried for the financial state of things both national and individual (and my mother, being an employee of Social Security Administration, is being forced to work without pay for the time being), it also is true that I have been worried about those same financial states for a LONG time now. Prices go up, the value of the dollar goes down, small businesses and capitalism are on the decline (from what I see in the midwest town where I live - one of the 5 biggest cities in Missouri - and in the smaller communities around us; I don't know if it's better or worse in larger cities elsewhere), the country just keeps getting deeper and deeper in debt and the list goes on. So it's come down to this. When an individual gets to a certain point in their finances, their credit is cut off. I am of the opinion that a default in the midst of a shutdown might be just what the country needs (and believe me, I would still be extremely concerned should it come to that point). However, what I think will actually happen would be that President Obama would make a move. I think if Congress doesn't come to a decision in time, President Obama will simply ignore the Constitutional checks and balances (where Congress is the branch which determines how money will be spent) and declare the debt ceiling raised all by himself. And even if the Supreme Court has ruled that ObamaCare is constitutional, that does not mean that ObamaCare is going to be good for our country.
__________________
In God I trust, I will not be afraid. What can man do to me? Psalm 56:11 "Starbuck, what do you hear?" "Nothin' but the rain, sir!" "Then grab your gun and bring in the cat." Make sure to check out the C.S. Lewis forum. Game threads, movie and book discussions and more! Last edited by Midge : 10-06-2013 at 05:07 PM. |
10-07-2013, 02:18 PM | #6 | ||||
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And by the way under obama the US budget deficit has been cut in half! It has NOT increased. Yet over 60% of americans believe it has. This is the kind of climate we are dealing with that contrary where truth doesnt matter and we only promote lies and exaggerations that back up our agenda. The truth is that the defect has fallen at its fastest rate since world war II under Obama! (http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...cit_chart.html) And as far as invoking the 14th Amendment to raise the debt limit unilaterally a lot of people doubt the legality of that including presumably Obama, given he’s said he won’t invoke it. So I dont think you need to worry about that although I guess anything is possible. But my opinion is he has some other ideas about how to handle this if it gets to the point where the debt ceiling is threatened. There is already talks of putting together a short term solution. This whole game of chicken just needs to stop. And as it goes on you will find business having more and more of an issue with it because they are being hurt too and THAT will certainly get the republican's attention if the plight of the common man doesnt. So its a shrinking cliff for Boehner and his gang. And soon they are going to have to jump one way or the other.
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
||||
10-08-2013, 05:47 PM | #7 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
You know, sometimes I'm glad to hear other countries have even crazier politicians than ours. (Trust me when I say I know inept politicians, I'm from the country that went without a federal government for over a year because them bloody politicians preferred no government at all rather than be responsible, compromise and work together. Sounds familiar? Only Iraq ever did worse for crying out loud!)
But even the worst of ours at least appear to live in the same reality as the rest of us, which does not always seem to be the case with the Americans. And the level of factual-incorrect political propaganda that gets slung around is mind boggling from where I am standing. I mean, just how many people who rage against 'Obamacare' but sorta approve of ACA without knowing it's the bloody same thing, are there? (Although the opposite appears to exist too.) This irrational fear of even the smallest whif of socialism isn't doing your country any good. I can understand the desire to limit government spending, in fact it's a good thing. Our deficit, while not in the trillions yet, has gotten so huge we may never get it under control ever again. (Have I mentioned our inept politicians yet?) But to limit government spending at the expense of public health? It's not like the American health care system doesn't suck to high hell already for a first world country. Surely there are other, better ways to balance the books than constantly taking money away from the things republican politicians seem to despise: science, environmental control (I heard one of them crowing the shut-down was a good thing because it would cripple that bothersome EPA for the time being) and health care. |
10-08-2013, 11:30 PM | #8 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
The problem is equating personal debt with national debt. Since the international abandonment of the gold standard a good forty years ago now, money between nations is a relative thing, as it should be. The fact that the US can hold the debt it does is a reflection on how strong our economy is, and how strong international confidence is in our economic system. Not raising the debt limit isn't frugal or smart, it's just throwing away some of our economic standing.
Economics is not about absolute values, it about relationships and trust.
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
10-09-2013, 11:36 AM | #9 | |
Elf Lady
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the lands where mountains are but a fairytale
Posts: 8,588
|
Quote:
Over here the government controls the prices. They say what we're willing to pay and ask which company will do it for that much/little. Insurance companies are also controlled by the government and partially funded to make sure the people don't have to pay through the roof. I pay 100 euros per month and have to pay 350 per year myself for medicine etc. If my meds and surgeries and treatments go over the 350 euros, tne insurance covers the rest.
__________________
Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"... |
|
10-10-2013, 06:42 AM | #10 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Here's my perspective on this, as someone who has worked in health care for about 18 years.
I look at health systems around the world as part of my job and guess what? The US is the worst in the developed world, by a long way. What I mean by this is that the US spends the most - by far! about 16% of GDP - on health care and gets the worst outcomes. Here in the UK we spend about 8% via our communistic state system and get better outcomes than you. The French spend about 12% in their mixed model and get the best overall outcomes. You have to ask yourself, where is all that money going? Because it's not going into making people healthier. Obama was elected with a mandate to reform health care, and he has delivered. I am sure it's imperfect, but that's politics. This whole thing is anti-democratic and it makes America look ridiculous. It also makes the Republicans look like spoiled children, who take their ball home when they are losing in spite of their cheating and lying. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Petition: Entmoot Government Forum | trolls' bane | Feedback and Tech Problems | 22 | 12-21-2007 09:53 PM |
Should government have a say in what parents name their children? | jerseydevil | General Messages | 36 | 09-07-2002 11:36 AM |
US Presidential Election | Taimar | General Messages | 60 | 08-24-2000 01:31 AM |
Planetary government | bmilder | Entmoot Archive | 23 | 06-25-2000 07:11 AM |