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08-29-2004, 05:13 AM | #81 |
Elven Warrior
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But they could because it wasnt so much a shadow world, it was... an otherworld and the spirits of the imortal elves were in that side of existance. If an elf is killed in arda his spirit(shadow world form0 goes to the halls of mandos. I am pretty sure the elves could see, they could see frodo as he was becoming more wraithlike, and if he put on the ring perhaps.
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08-29-2004, 07:00 AM | #82 | |
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08-29-2004, 07:14 AM | #83 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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He only said that he was visible because he was of the Firstborn not that he could see him.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-29-2004, 07:52 AM | #84 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Gandalf actually said that "those [of the Elves] who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm, live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power." It is reasonable to believe that if you are present in the shadow world, then also everything and everyone else in that world is visible to you.
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08-29-2004, 08:11 AM | #85 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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So in a way they were half wraiths of good?
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-29-2004, 04:25 PM | #86 |
Elven Warrior
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well back to my point, if even some of the higher elves can see frodo in the "shadow realm" than someone higher like a maia or vala could no dount see him!? As Tom Bombadill had to be something higher than even elf if he is telling the truth about being fatherless.
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"Can you feel her, running through your veins? She will always live forever!" ~ Atreyu [Her portrait in Black] "I want to see pretty people doing ugly things..." ~ Unknown "Damn it n' such!" ~ Stewie Griffen |
08-29-2004, 04:30 PM | #87 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Unless he is one of the elves that was first awoken by Eru.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
01-28-2005, 11:40 PM | #88 |
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Who is Tom
I think that Tom is Arda as it was created by Eru in the beginning. The more men/elves/dwarves/hobbits modify Arda, the less Tom considers it its reign. Given that Arda is a thing, not a being, he/it is not affected by the ring My question 1 One day is spent in the house of Tom (while it was raining). Does this have any special meaning? My question 2 Both Tom and Goldberry know of the perils of the Barrow Downs and still they send the hobitts on on their own. Why is that? It is true that Tom gives them a ryme to call him but he should have known that they were unlikely to have the presence of mind to use such a ryme |
02-08-2005, 09:15 AM | #89 | |
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*DING*
Just had a thought. Late in Chapter 8, when Bombadil gives the knives to the Hobbits and tells them about the Men of Westernesse - and the sons of forgotten kings who still go wandering about, they suddenly see a vision: Quote:
But it just occured to me that Tom perhaps gave them a vision of Aragorn. What do you guys think??
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02-08-2005, 11:41 AM | #90 | |
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10-02-2005, 09:54 AM | #91 | |
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02-20-2009, 12:47 PM | #92 | |
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These threads are great! Lol this is now officially my favorite thread on the Moot (along with the discussion of Chapters 5 and 6) I always thought the trip from Bag End to the Brandywine river, and then the start of their voyage 'for real' into the depths of the Old Forest was the best read of the entire Lord of the Rings Tolkien at his best. I like the description of the early morning mist when the four hobbits set off into the Old Forest, with distant sounds and an air of suspense in the hours before sunrise Will definitely add some thoughts later here!
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