10-18-2002, 09:09 PM | #61 |
AngAdan
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Angrod and Aegenor both were Killed in The battle of the Sudden Flame. Firod was killed some years later during Beren's quest. Since neither Celebrindal nor Galadriel got a throne (Even in Lorien she did not get the tile of queen) it seems that females were usually excluded from the throne.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |
10-19-2002, 04:33 AM | #62 |
Sapling
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Thanks Guys!
I really wish I had the Home series, gotta get it soon. Yeh, Orodreth's claim makes sense now. It is the general theory that Gil-Galad escaped the ruin of NArgothornd and fled to the Havens? Similar to Elwing fleeing Menegroth. |
10-19-2002, 11:48 AM | #63 |
AngAdan
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He was sent there by his father some years before the fall of nargothrond. It may have been for safety, but that would have been a goof, since the havens fell before Nargothrond. Likely there was a educational reason, Oredreth may have sent him to Aqquire shipbuilding technology. Gil-Galad was half Sindar, so perhaps he was also some sort of junior ambassador.
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10-22-2002, 01:01 AM | #64 |
The Tall
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Coming to the subject of the thread, I have to agree with Tar-Elenion.
Fëanor was not the High King of the Noldor, he claimed the Kingship and did Fingolfin, after his death the matter was settled by Maedhros who waived his right to the kingship not the kingship itself to Fingolfin. Also in the Shibboleth of Fëanor, it states that Fingolfin claimed the Kingship after the death of Finwë.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
01-11-2006, 10:59 PM | #65 |
AngAdan
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I have another theory on Gildor. During the War of the Great Jewels there were likely young Noldor orphaned, and some such orphans may have become wards of the Kings, raised in their households, even as we have seen other examples of this, like Turin being a fosterson to Thingol. Perhaps Gildor was an original exile or child therof, a younster, orpahned by war or other casualty (like crossing the Helecarxe) and was made a fosterling by Finrod. He would not be a heir to the throne, but would perhaps call himself of Finrods house.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |
02-20-2006, 12:49 PM | #66 |
Sapling
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Where does Maglor get lost in all of this though? If I remember correctly, after the War of Wrath he's just wondering around the coasts of ME and we never hear from him again. Since I haven't read the HOME series I don't know of any further explanation. But, technically wouldn't he have some sort of claim to the High Kingship?
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02-20-2006, 01:03 PM | #67 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Quote:
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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02-20-2006, 01:18 PM | #68 | |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
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Welcome to the Moot! Right, as far as I know, Maglor is still somewhere around. I don't remember anything from HOME about his fate (though I haven't read all the 12 volumes). His claim would have been very strong, had his older brother not abdicated for all their house... I don't think there is a way back on it. |
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02-20-2006, 02:34 PM | #69 |
Elf Lord
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Unless the heir from one of the other houses formally abdicated and handed authority back to the house of Feanor.
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02-20-2006, 02:42 PM | #70 | |
Sapling
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Quote:
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02-20-2006, 02:53 PM | #71 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Quote:
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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02-20-2006, 03:09 PM | #72 | |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
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Here is the quote you sought:
Quote:
Anyway, Maglor was the only one to outlive Maedhros. |
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02-20-2006, 03:12 PM | #73 |
Sapling
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I understand why the kingship went to the house of Finarfin, however what I'm saying is that after Maedhros' death Maglor could have contested Gil-Galad's claim to the high kingship because he was now the only surviving heir to the house of Feanor and therefore could rescind Maedhros' decision as the head of that house.
Edit: Granted, I'm not saying that Maglor would have wanted to contest Gil-Galad's claim, but that the possibility existed for him to do so. So really, this is all just semantics because Maglor was so guilt stricken that he couldn't even associate with other elves anyway, let alone try to lead the Noldorin remnant. Last edited by Cerebus : 02-20-2006 at 03:18 PM. |
02-20-2006, 03:27 PM | #74 |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
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Wow, how could I forget?
It DID happen, as far as I remember, but not with Maglor! It happened in Hollin, in the Second Age. Gil-Galad was the High King, but Celebrimbor, lord of Eregion, was Curufin's son, of the house of Feanor. I don't remember if he actually contested Gil-Galad's High kinship, but sure he didn't hearken to his advice (re:Annatar) and was very independant. The Mirdain asked Galadriel and Celeborn who tried to lord it over them, to go pack. |
02-20-2006, 03:34 PM | #75 | |
Sapling
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Quote:
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02-20-2006, 04:17 PM | #76 | |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
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Quote:
Also Celegorm and Curufin revolted against Orodreth in Nargothrond... |
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02-20-2006, 05:22 PM | #77 |
Sapling
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I suppose my original question is answered then. All I was looking for was a precedent (basically) for someone of the house of Feanor trying to reassert himself as High King, because as supposed to the houses of Fingolfin and Finarfin, Feanor and his sons were 100% Noldorin and I thought that their pure descent (so to speak) should have held more weight.
On another note however... It's generally thought (or at least I've been told) that Elrond could never claim the High kingship because his Noldorin descent was from Idril (a female). However in Doriath, the Sindar don't seem to have any qualms about Dior (descended from Thingol through his daughter Luthien) inheriting the High Kingship of Beleriand despite not coming directly from a male heir. Were these differences just cultural or what? Last edited by Cerebus : 02-20-2006 at 05:29 PM. |
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