04-21-2004, 01:15 AM | #1 | ||
The Tall
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Chapter 23: Of the Fall of Gondolin
Narn e·Dant Gondolin ar Orthad en·Êl
This story deals mostly with Tuor son of Huor. It begins as Tuor is raised by Elves (Grey-Elves, Annael). Unfortunately for Tuor, he was captured by the Easterlings and made a slave. The good thing is that Tuor handled that situation elegantly and became friends with the animals and therefore was able to escape from thralldom. He met later with Elves of the house of Finarfin (Gelmir and Arminas) see the Narn for extra information, and they helped set Tuor on his quest. Tuor therefore came to Nevrast and claimed the weapons that Turgon had left them a long time ago. Tuor then meets with Ulmo and is set on his path to reach Gondolin and he meets with Voronwë, who is amazed at how Tuor knows so much about him. After Tuor reveals that he is a messenger from Ulmo, Voronwë takes him to Gondolin. When they reach the gates, they are captured by the guard of Elemmakil. Because of the errand of Tuor and the words that Ulmo put in his mouth, Elemmakil deems that he is not fit to judge him and sets them upon the Warden of the Great Gate, who at that time happened to be Echtelion. Later Tuor Quote:
Lets have a description of the city: Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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04-21-2004, 01:19 AM | #2 | ||||||
The Tall
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Lets mention the seven names of the city of Gondolin:
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So Tuor falls in love with Turgon’s daughter, Idril and they wed and have a son: Quote:
Later of course, Maeglin defied the law of Gondolin and went outside to mine and was captured by Morgoth and he made a deal with him: Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. Last edited by Maedhros : 04-21-2004 at 11:12 AM. |
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04-21-2004, 01:27 AM | #3 | ||||
The Tall
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In those battles we know that there were some great deeds of valour:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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04-21-2004, 01:30 AM | #4 | ||
The Tall
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´Tis is Glorfindel and the Balrog
While passing through the Cirith Thoronath, they faced some resistance Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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04-21-2004, 01:39 AM | #5 |
The Tall
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Sources used:
Fall of Gondolin in HoME 2. Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin in UT. Wanderings of Húrin in HoME 11. Quenta Noldorinwa in HoME 4. Horns of Ylmir in HoME 4. Questions on this chapter: 1. It is interesting to note that Turgon acted in some convinient ways: a. He listened to Ulmo's advice to build Gondolin. b. He listened to Húrin's and Huor's advice to flee to Gondolin. Yet, when there were things that he didn't want to hear we have: a. He didn't allow Húrin entrance into Gondolin. b. He refused Ulmo's adive in the end. 2. What happened to the eagles? They kept watch on Gondolin, but failed to spot Morgoth's army approaching? C'est bizarre! 3. Is the use of Mechanical Monsters at odds with later versions of the story? 4. Doesn't it makes you sad the lack of details in the narrative in the Published Silmarillion? 5. If you read carefully my previous posts, there are some things that should be asked but I want to give the opportunity for people to seek them out first. 6. Isn't it odd that Maeglin wanted to "posses" her cousin?
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
04-21-2004, 12:45 PM | #6 |
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Ah, the Fall of Gondolin ... Beautiful writing, esp. in HoME2 ... *falls into a reverie*
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-21-2004, 02:57 PM | #7 | |
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Re: Chapter 23: Of the Fall of Gondolin
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I will respond later, I'm too busy at the moment ...
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04-21-2004, 04:50 PM | #8 |
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Good work as usual, Maedhros!
I think this is the time for me to read BOLT: The Fall of Gondolin. You all say it is fantastical.
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04-21-2004, 10:05 PM | #9 |
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I did a lot of research about this because of my taking Of Maeglin as a chapter assignment. So on this I have actually read out of HoME, mostly BoLT 2, I think (some were so similar that I kind of decided it wasn't worth my time to basically reread the story for the purposes of my chapter intro ). But it was a while back, so I don't have a crystal clear memory of what was in it, aside from the fact that a lot of detail was cut out. I don't mind that it was cut, because of length. On the other hand, I think reading the "originals" gives a clearer picture of what was happening, and pulls the reader in a little deeper because of that. It's almost as if, despite being longer, it is easier to read because you get more.
IMO, this is one of the most cohesive, detailed, and complete stories in The Silm, along with Beren and Luthien and a couple of others. Of course, several other threads are wound through here, and that's part of what made the end chapters of The Silm easier to read than some of the earlier ones. You can see how everything fits together, and to some extent where it's leading. You have the Gondolin story connecting to the Voyage of Earendil in this narrative. This is really where Tolkien's storytelling abilities are brought forth. There is a lot of emotion, you get to form a "relationship" with the main character, there is action, and a "real" bad guy (Maeglin), along with the "unearthly" Morgoth. The mechanical monsters were fascinating to me. I remember that I wondered, like you did, about its being at odds. I can't really say right now, with the info that's in my brain at the moment. I'd have to go back and look. I remember we discussed Maeglin's desire for Idril during my chapter. I think it makes sense in a seedy kind of way. I think the main reason was that by marrying her, he could have a firmer claim on the kingdom (although some people disputed this); also, she was beautiful. Then there's the possibility of it being part of his flawed personality -- desiring something unattainable for the sake of "possessing" it, wanting the forbidden because it is forbidden, as a kind of defeat of the "rules." That's the best way I can put it. |
04-22-2004, 02:13 PM | #10 | ||||
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The story is full of wonderful details, about the city, about society, about the persons, about the battle. Go read! Quote:
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Eärendil Ardam*re. Isn't that beautiful?
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04-27-2004, 01:13 PM | #11 |
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Isn't it incredible that Maeglin, when he was captured by the Orcs and led to Angband, could disappear for so long time, without anyone noticing? He must have gone forth all alone, or else his companions would have reported the incident, or been missed if they were captured too, or killed. And he must have done so frequently, so that his people were used to his absence for longer periods.
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04-27-2004, 04:43 PM | #12 |
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It is interesting the case of Maeglin. The good thing for him is that he was not a popular elves among the Gondolindrim (at least in the Book of Lost Tales II version). It would be interesting as to how much time did Maeglin spent while captured, being transported to Angband and then returning to Gondolin. The Tale of Years mentions that it took place in 509 FA.
On a side note, I wonder if those exiles of Gondolin, after the failure of those sailors that Turgon sent to Valinórë would think this: What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?, like the lament of Galadriel in Lórien. Sī` mán i yúlma n*n ènquántuv*? Who now shall refill the cup for me? I wonder if Galadriel needed a little sip of limpë?
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
04-28-2004, 04:40 PM | #13 | ||||
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I also find it unlikely that Maeglin could go beyond the hills without Turgon's permission, and return from Angband unnoticed. Weren't the ways in and out of the vale watched? Quote:
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05-06-2004, 09:47 AM | #14 | |
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Unfinished tales, Of Tuor:
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05-06-2004, 12:08 PM | #15 | |
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From the Published Silmarillion: Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor
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To Artanis: Ai! láurië lántar lássi sū΄rinèn
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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05-06-2004, 12:27 PM | #16 | ||
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yē'ni ūnōtimè ve rā'mar áldaròn!
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--Life is hard, and then we die. Last edited by Artanis : 05-07-2004 at 03:25 AM. |
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05-20-2004, 06:26 AM | #17 | |
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12-15-2004, 04:45 PM | #18 |
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it is a shame he never wrote more on the subject of gondolin, and subsequently nargothrond...
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