11-20-2001, 10:00 AM | #1 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
elves and telepathy
in the complete guide to ME it says that the eldar could speak mind to mind
can someone verify this
__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-20-2001, 11:28 AM | #2 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: European Union
Posts: 463
|
Not really. I think there might be something in HoME on the subject.
What I do know there is a passage in LotR 'Many Partings' where it seems Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond and Gandalf spend the nights around the campfire communicating without words and with thoughts only. |
11-20-2001, 05:55 PM | #3 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
|
That would be where Robert Foster got it then, his book was published before any of the HoMe books were.
__________________
Falmon -- Dylan |
11-29-2001, 08:01 PM | #4 | |
Best Ex-Administrator ever
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 60,547
|
Quote:
|
|
11-30-2001, 01:20 AM | #5 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
gandalf is not an elf
__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-30-2001, 11:16 AM | #6 |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
|
Speaking of Robert Foster, I understand that a new guide is to be published soon. Does anyone know more about this? Is it to include the HoMe?
|
11-30-2001, 04:50 PM | #7 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
the last time i checked with amazon and that was awhile ago
the only it said was it was due out on dec 4th i'll check in a bit and see what it says now
__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-30-2001, 04:57 PM | #8 | |
Best Ex-Administrator ever
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 60,547
|
Quote:
|
|
11-30-2001, 05:32 PM | #9 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
CMG
i'm not sure i follow your point my original question on the post was do thr eldar have telepathy not if if their creations did can you clarify SGH i check amazon again just now and it SEEMS to be the very same book
__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-30-2001, 05:36 PM | #10 | |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
|
Quote:
__________________
Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
|
11-30-2001, 05:49 PM | #11 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Shire
Posts: 49
|
Tolkien discussed Elven telepathy (and telepathy in general) rather thoroughly in an essay called Osanwe-kenta ("Discussion of the communication of thought" in plain old English ) published in Vinyar Tengwar #39, July 1998. I believe that Christopher Tolkien mentions this essay in his notes in HoME XI (should be notes to Quendi and Eldar but I can as well be mistaken); mind-reading is also discussed in the Myths Transformed, HoME X. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of Osanwe (though I'd love to) but basically the arguments boil down to the following:
- All the Incarnates (Men, Elves and self-incarnated Ainur) posess the ability to communicate in thought and to "read minds". This ability varies between the races (Ainur are the most capable, Men the least) and individually within a race (e.g. telepathic abilities of Finrod, an Elf, were comparable to lesser Maiar; but Finrod was exceptional). - Not even with the most powerful Ainur, the Valar, the mind-reading ability is complete, i.e. it's impossible to actually perceive someone's mind totally (to know what the person is thinking). Besides, if a person doesn't want to reveal his/her thoughts, he/she cannot be forced to do so. To dominate the others' will by fear or force of any kind in order to make them speak up is wicked; among the Valar Morgoth alone did such things. - Certain things would severely decrease telepathic abilities, and some other things would increase them. The most important decreasing factor is the existence of a body; that's why Men and Elves, who are permanently incarnate have lesser abilities than Ainur, who are spirits by their nature. Another major factor is language, because comminicating through words is much quicker and more precise than communicating in thought. Among facilitating factors are kinship/friendship (persons having affection for each other have it easier to communicate in thought); urgency; power of command (e.g. a commander trying to get in touch with the army has bigger chances to get through).
__________________
Above all shadows rides the Sun And stars forever dwell; I will not say the day is done, Nor bid the stars farewell. |
12-02-2001, 05:16 PM | #12 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: European Union
Posts: 463
|
Quote:
__________________
'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.' |
|
12-03-2001, 12:06 PM | #13 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Shire
Posts: 49
|
I failed to find it, but it looks like the issue can be ordered from the Vinyar Tengwar's website. BTW, Sister Golden Hair is interested in this essay, too. I wonder if we could join our efforts somehow?
P.S. I like your signature; it comes from the same source as mine
__________________
Above all shadows rides the Sun And stars forever dwell; I will not say the day is done, Nor bid the stars farewell. Last edited by Elanor Gamgee : 12-03-2001 at 12:08 PM. |
12-03-2001, 12:15 PM | #14 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
|
Quote:
|
|
12-03-2001, 12:21 PM | #15 |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
|
QUOTE:and individually within a race (e.g. telepathic abilities of Finrod, an Elf, were comparable to lesser Maiar; but Finrod was exceptional).
Btw, Elanor, where did you find that small peice of Osanwe-kenta tht you sent me? |
12-03-2001, 12:35 PM | #16 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Shire
Posts: 49
|
Good question, Sister; I wish I could remember! I was browsing something, which might be a telepathy thread on Xenite.org.
__________________
Above all shadows rides the Sun And stars forever dwell; I will not say the day is done, Nor bid the stars farewell. |
12-03-2001, 05:48 PM | #17 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: European Union
Posts: 463
|
Quote:
So how can that essay be found as a joint venture? We can give it a try with Sister Golden Hair. Suggestions?
__________________
'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.' |
|
12-03-2001, 06:26 PM | #18 | ||
Hobbit
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Shire
Posts: 49
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Above all shadows rides the Sun And stars forever dwell; I will not say the day is done, Nor bid the stars farewell. |
||