11-22-2001, 08:54 PM | #1 |
Hoplite Nomad
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elves and fading
elves that fade become "invisible" to the real world
BUT are faded elves visible to each other are there communites of faded ones?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-23-2001, 09:37 AM | #2 |
Elven Warrior
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Isn't that "fading" symbolic? That they leave Middle Earth and their culture fades away from sight of mortals. Not that they actually would become invisible or shadowlike.
And yes, hello. I'm new on these forums. Looks more interesting than most of LOTR forums. |
11-23-2001, 10:28 AM | #3 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Re: elves and fading
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11-23-2001, 10:32 AM | #4 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Quote:
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11-23-2001, 10:42 AM | #5 |
Hoplite Nomad
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well i'm thinking about the elves who still "flourished" in the early 4th age
the woodland realm and EAST lorien they all lived in a REALM. so say by the 5th age did these faded REALMS exist unto them selves?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-23-2001, 05:44 PM | #6 |
Elf Lord
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Welcome Lightice! Don't let them fool you with that 'scholar' business, I couldn't explain it any better than Sister Golden Hair.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
11-25-2001, 02:42 PM | #7 |
Elven Warrior
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Umm...I don't ever remember seeing any references into literal fading...where can they be found?
And wan't it so, that when elf dies, he/she rebirths at Immortal Lands, so if "faded" elf dies, is he still faded at Valinor? |
11-25-2001, 04:08 PM | #8 |
The Insufferable
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Nope. The eventual result of fading was that the elf became disincarnate, basically a ghost. When the went to aman, they stayed in Mandos, as 'ghosts' until they were deemed worthy of reincarnation. Then they got a new body.
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11-25-2001, 04:29 PM | #9 |
Elf Lord
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The best information on the subject Lightice can be found in an essay called Laws and Customs Among the Eldar, published in Part One of the History of the Silmarillion, in the History of Middle-earth (HoMe) series. It is Volume X and is called Morgoth's Ring.
I would not say that they were disincarnate Shannon. I mean: there were Elvish spirits who remained in Middle-earth after 'death', refusing the summons to Aman, these are really the disincarnates. Fades Elves just sort of faded away; their bodies became invisable to our eyes.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
11-25-2001, 06:36 PM | #10 |
Hoplite Nomad
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but could the faded elves see each other
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-26-2001, 01:08 AM | #11 |
Elf Lord
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Yes. As much as one Ringwraith sees another without the aid of physical clothes.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
11-30-2001, 09:11 AM | #12 |
Elf Lord
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One of Tolkien early ideas was that the Fading started when the number of humans became greater that the number of elves. This is curious, and implies that the human numbers were starting to became greater that those of elves during the late Third Era.
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12-01-2001, 10:29 PM | #13 | |
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
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12-02-2001, 04:32 PM | #14 |
The Insufferable
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Yes, anbd prolly before then.
Also, there are elves implied to have faded in the second and third ages. Daeron and Maglor (but do depressed minstrels count?)
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