Unreliable postman

Kirinki54 · 11-07-2001, 11:25 AM

After meeting Radagast and rushing to Isengard, Gandalf trusted Barliman Butterbur with a letter as the (almost sole) prevention to protect Frodo from the Black Riders.
Now, knowing this guy (Barly) from the scenes in LotR, my rate of confidence would not be that high. And he never got around to mail the letter! (Which might have gone lost anyway...)
How can we explain this situation?

fireworks19 · 11-07-2001, 04:30 PM

Let's see....

'You're right, master," he said, 'and I beg your pardon. And I'm mortal afraid of what Gandalf will say, if harm comes by it. But I didn't keep it back a-purpose. I put it by safe. Then I couldn't find nobody willing to go to the Shirt next day, nor the day after, and none of my own folk were to spare; and then one think after another drove it out of my mind. I'm a busy man. I'll do what I can to set matters right, and if there's any help I can give, you've only to name it.'

I'd say the poor man explains it himself rather well....

Kirinki54 · 11-07-2001, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fireworks19
I'd say the poor man explains it himself rather well....

Yes, he does. And Gandalf also explains his side at The Council of Elrond. But how on ME did Gandalf judge the situation in order for him to solve the problem this way?

fireworks19 · 11-07-2001, 05:36 PM

That's a good question. I can't look that part up now because my brother has my copy of the Fellowship and he's home now. He wasn't before, so it was easy to snatch the book for my quote before...I can't help you, but I'm interested now.

ryan · 11-07-2001, 11:18 PM

hundreds of years ago, in south america, they used to have runners and the likes relay messages across mountains by running.. Iirc, they uh, made some kind of marijuana tea, or made of the same plant.. the idea was to speed up the runners heart rate so he breathes more air and can run faster and longer at higher elevations.

And the point of this is, perhaps butterbur forgot to drink his tea and lost the letter.

KingElessar8 · 11-11-2001, 12:47 PM

If you mean "why the heck did Gandalf - known as a wise person and a good judge of character - entrust Barliman Butterbur with a task so important?", I would say - he didnt have a choice. As far as he knew, he could not go back to the Shire himself and still gain the aid of Saruman in time, so sending a message was the only option. He had to choose someone a) He knew b) Knew the Shire fairly well (leaving out Radagast) and c) was important enough that he might have a shot at getting the job done.
And anyway, Gandalf was never portrayed as perfect in his judgement. He had a lot on his mind.

Kirinki54 · 11-12-2001, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KingElessar8
And anyway, Gandalf was never portrayed as perfect in his judgement. He had a lot on his mind.

Yes I quite agree with your post. But it was a haphazard way with several chances of failure. A perhaps the way it failed was one of the least likely!

One can notice that there is indeed a great difference in Gandalfs appearance and behaviour before Moria and after. The New and Improved Gandalf makes no mistakes I can think of; he is in a new league.

KingElessar8 · 11-13-2001, 03:18 PM

I cant think of any either, offhand. Maybe he should have been more wary of Denethor, and foreseen what the Steward might be capable of; but I dont know if that can properly be labeled a mistake. He almost makes a mistake in Book 3: he was thinking about looking in the Palantir himself, which he claims would have been a disaster, though for what reason Ive never been clear. I guess it was at the least a bit of a flub to let Pippin look in the Palantir in the first place, but Pippin was pretty quick to get to the Seeing Stone, and Gandalf hadnt had a moment to think about what the thing actually was.
In his 'grey' persona, he makes a ton of errors. In fact, his errors set the whole plot in motion. Some of it is second guessing and hindsight of course, but still he really should have done something with/about the Ring a little earlier.

Kirinki54 · 11-13-2001, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KingElessar8
In his 'grey' persona, he makes a ton of errors. In fact, his errors set the whole plot in motion. Some of it is second guessing and hindsight of course, but still he really should have done something with/about the Ring a little earlier.

And Gandalf is not alone by being slow. Sometimes you get the feeling that all the so called Wise were also quite slow. Especially in dealing with the Necro-mancer and Dol Guldur.

11-07-2001, 11:25 AM	#1
Kirinki54 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: European Union Posts: 463	Unreliable postman After meeting Radagast and rushing to Isengard, Gandalf trusted Barliman Butterbur with a letter as the (almost sole) prevention to protect Frodo from the Black Riders. Now, knowing this guy (Barly) from the scenes in LotR, my rate of confidence would not be that high. And he never got around to mail the letter! (Which might have gone lost anyway...) How can we explain this situation?

11-07-2001, 04:30 PM	#2
fireworks19 Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Indiana Posts: 156	Let's see.... 'You're right, master," he said, 'and I beg your pardon. And I'm mortal afraid of what Gandalf will say, if harm comes by it. But I didn't keep it back a-purpose. I put it by safe. Then I couldn't find nobody willing to go to the Shirt next day, nor the day after, and none of my own folk were to spare; and then one think after another drove it out of my mind. I'm a busy man. I'll do what I can to set matters right, and if there's any help I can give, you've only to name it.' I'd say the poor man explains it himself rather well.... __________________ Just Watch the Fireworks Just Meet Fireworks =)

11-07-2001, 05:36 PM	#4
fireworks19 Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Indiana Posts: 156	That's a good question. I can't look that part up now because my brother has my copy of the Fellowship and he's home now. He wasn't before, so it was easy to snatch the book for my quote before...I can't help you, but I'm interested now. __________________ Just Watch the Fireworks Just Meet Fireworks =)

11-07-2001, 11:18 PM	#5
ryan t2t relic Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 531	mailmen.. hundreds of years ago, in south america, they used to have runners and the likes relay messages across mountains by running.. Iirc, they uh, made some kind of marijuana tea, or made of the same plant.. the idea was to speed up the runners heart rate so he breathes more air and can run faster and longer at higher elevations. And the point of this is, perhaps butterbur forgot to drink his tea and lost the letter. __________________ "And the Lord spoke, "Send me your money, Empty thine wallets into my pockets my pockets, the pockets of Ryan, Ryan, he who will deliver the money unto me. Then you will truley be happy." And the people followed, and all was well." --Ryan 62:33

11-11-2001, 12:47 PM	#6
KingElessar8 Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 15	If you mean "why the heck did Gandalf - known as a wise person and a good judge of character - entrust Barliman Butterbur with a task so important?", I would say - he didnt have a choice. As far as he knew, he could not go back to the Shire himself and still gain the aid of Saruman in time, so sending a message was the only option. He had to choose someone a) He knew b) Knew the Shire fairly well (leaving out Radagast) and c) was important enough that he might have a shot at getting the job done. And anyway, Gandalf was never portrayed as perfect in his judgement. He had a lot on his mind.

11-13-2001, 03:18 PM	#8
KingElessar8 Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 15	I cant think of any either, offhand. Maybe he should have been more wary of Denethor, and foreseen what the Steward might be capable of; but I dont know if that can properly be labeled a mistake. He almost makes a mistake in Book 3: he was thinking about looking in the Palantir himself, which he claims would have been a disaster, though for what reason Ive never been clear. I guess it was at the least a bit of a flub to let Pippin look in the Palantir in the first place, but Pippin was pretty quick to get to the Seeing Stone, and Gandalf hadnt had a moment to think about what the thing actually was. In his 'grey' persona, he makes a ton of errors. In fact, his errors set the whole plot in motion. Some of it is second guessing and hindsight of course, but still he really should have done something with/about the Ring a little earlier.