08-13-2001, 12:08 AM | #1 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 24
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Irony
Just a quick note that I realized:
Is it not ironic that Saurons finger was hacked off by the forces of good, that being Isildur, and then Isildur died, then Frodos finger got bitten off by the forces of evil (Gollum's half, not the Smeagol half) and the force of evil died in the end?
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08-13-2001, 11:20 AM | #2 |
The man
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I don't think there's any irony to it: Tolkien never does anything without a purpose. However, I think there's more symbolism there then meets the eye. Frodo had just claimed the ring, and, if it were not for Gollum biting it from his finger, he would have begun a long fight for power similor to Saurons
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08-13-2001, 05:23 PM | #3 |
Sapling
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Irony is a good purpose.
Good catch Abacus. |
08-13-2001, 05:52 PM | #4 |
Hobbit
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Theseus: Thank You
Darth: I don't see how that is symbolic... Gollum just bit off Frodo's finger with lust for the ring. Isildur had cut off Sauron's finger at nearly the hight of his power, but it was not in lust for the ring. I would think that Tolkien would have put Irony in his book, showing how the Dark and Light are balanced, ever locked in combat.
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08-13-2001, 08:03 PM | #5 |
Elven Warrior
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humm
Isildur cut Sauron fingeur AFTER Gil-Galad and Elendil weakened him so far for the height of his power i think that a battle with such opponent would weakened almost anyone...even Sauron
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08-13-2001, 08:06 PM | #6 |
Hobbit
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That is what is known as a good point...
I would have to say point taken and I that I 'forgot' that fact... either way though... its still ironic.
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08-13-2001, 09:24 PM | #7 |
Elf Lord
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I think the "ironic" part is that Gollum destroyed the dark lord(missing caps intentional). If he had not been there, all "could have been lost".
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08-13-2001, 09:35 PM | #8 |
Hobbit
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Hehe, the slinker (or was it stinker?) took down the dark lord... thats a very good point.
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08-13-2001, 09:42 PM | #9 |
Elf Lord
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Notice I said "all COULD have been lost". If he had not been there how about Samwise? Could he have talked Frodo out of it?
I think so...Samwise is one of the true heroes of LOTR. Except I get a little tired of him "bursting into tears"!
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Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty! Last edited by ringbearer : 08-13-2001 at 09:45 PM. |
08-13-2001, 09:56 PM | #10 |
Hobbit
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True, he is the great unsung hero in all of LotR. If it were not for him, then Frodo would have failed. But also remember that Frodo was invisible and even if it were a help, the phial of Galadriel didn't work in the room. Sam, however a great character he was, was getting is arse beaten down by the posessed Frodo, and I don't think that he was in any listening mood to bother listening to anything that Sam had to say. Another point: When Smeagol and who ever the other guy was first found the ring, Smeagol murdered the other to retrieve it, even when the ring first started to have an effect on him.
I think that it was Gandalf who said something about the effect of the ring on its bearer to the effect of: It was made for darkness and use by any other is impossible for they would succome to its evil will sooner or later. Note: I don't have the time to look up each of these quotes, so they are not correct quotations, but I know that they were in the book in some form somewhere.
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08-13-2001, 10:03 PM | #11 |
Elf Lord
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Point; Bilbo gave it up on his own...a "first" according to Gandalf.
The love between Frodo and Samwise "could have" won out over the power of the Ring...merely conjecture...Tolkien's ending is still the best.
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08-13-2001, 10:06 PM | #12 |
Hobbit
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So it is... so it is...
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08-14-2001, 06:47 AM | #13 |
Sapling
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Gandalf said that Gollum could still have a part to play and he was proved right.
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08-14-2001, 02:48 PM | #14 | |
Elf Lord
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Sam and Frodo
There is no way Sam could have talked Frodo out of it. In Letter 246 JRR Tolkien wrote:
Quote:
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08-23-2001, 12:02 PM | #15 |
Sapling
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Hi
that was very interesting but how did u get it??... can i get it somewhere too???
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08-23-2001, 02:41 PM | #16 |
Elf Lord
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Hullo! Yes, you can. I got it from The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien by Humphrey Carpenter. Very helpful, that. It's a book you can buy in any 'Tolkien' carrying bookstore.
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08-23-2001, 03:44 PM | #17 |
Elven Warrior
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Did you type all that out yourself, , or did you just copy and paste it from somewhere? And if you c and p, from where?
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08-23-2001, 08:04 PM | #18 |
Sapling
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Thanks !!! I am kind of new to this ... I have only read the Hobbit and the three books of LOTR!!
Must have seemed a silly question to u, i guess!!
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