Plastic Surgery

[afro-elf]

You are still augmenting yourself no matter how you argue it.

If you wear high heels. You are not that tall.

If you wear a push up bra. You don't have that kinda of cleavage.

Lipstick. Your lips are not that red.

Foundation your are just covering up blemishes.

Your lashes are not that long nor your I brows so thick.

A change is a change.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Good luck. I hope it goes well for you. You'll have to send us a new photo after you heal.

thanks!!! I'll post a pic of the "new" me as soon as I'm all better

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by afro-elf
Lipstick. Your lips are not that red.

Foundation your are just covering up blemishes.

Your lashes are not that long nor your I brows so thick.

A change is a change.

whats interesting is WHY women accentuate their face with make up. Most people dont really think why. Just to look "attaractive" and they leave it at that. but why the face? well several studies have shown that this is actually an attempt to mimic the physiological ratio cues that we have as infants but we lose when we become adults. in other words by bringing attention to and increasing the size of our lips, eyes, cheeks, etc. with lip stick, eye shadow, plucking your eye brows, blush, etc. an adult human comes closer to reaching the much higher ratio range of face features to body size in infants which seems to be one of the main instinctual triggers for nurturing and loving to adults. this makes sense if you think about it since infants are helpless so those that have some features built in to make themeselves attractive and irresistable to adults around them would have a much better survival rate. in this same way those adults who have a system built in where these same features bring about feelings of love and nurturing and protection will do much better because it means they are much more likely to protect and nurture and keep their proginay alive. of course theres a whole lot of culture involved in these practices as well but its interesting to note that accross most cultures accentuation of the facial features is universal even if its done in different ways. so the next you put on some lip stick or eye liner think about it...

[samwiselvr2008]

Originally posted by Ruinel

It sounds like a lot of people posting here have boundaries as to what sort of surgery is acceptable and what is not.

You say that laser eye surgery is ok. And you agreed that fixing a cleft palate for a child is also ok. But none of these things are life threatening, nor are they considered medically necessary.

No, bad eyes are not life threatning, but from personall experians, I would love to have laer eye surgery, it's really anoying with your glasses getting all fogged up in air condition, wet in the rain, and spottied otherwise, plus, soemtimes if they need to be resised, tehy hurt to were. And also, my eyes really hurt when I wear contacts, so those won't work, plus the glare and anoying spots and scratches when the light is on bright, or when you looking at a sunny place is really anoying. Using camaras is also hard in glasses, but if you take them off then it dosn't look like the final picture dose. I owuld love laser eye surgery for those reasons, plus, if you calculate one pear of glasses every one to two years, so that you can see correctly, and see what the teacher is writint at the bord at school, or see what a friend is pointing out, that everyone can see but you, it is cheaper to get laser eye surgery, say that it costs $2,000 to get it, over 20 years, unless you ceep the same frame, laser eye surfery is cheaper, and you odn't even have to look for your glasses in the morning, or blink all day trying to get the pane of contacts to go away.

[samwiselvr2008]

Originally posted by afro-elf
You are still augmenting yourself no matter how you argue it.

If you wear high heels. You are not that tall.

If you wear a push up bra. You don't have that kinda of cleavage.

Lipstick. Your lips are not that red.

Foundation your are just covering up blemishes.

Your lashes are not that long nor your I brows so thick.

A change is a change.

I dont' do any of these, so no, i'm not being hypocritacle. I buy discount clothes, to, so don't say that that counts against me.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

i think using makeup and such is okay. I mean it uses topical 'treatments' to accentuate what you want accentuated and make less visible what you don't want visible. it doesn't actually add or remove anything. Surgery to remove things from accidents and such, like scars, I think is okay. Blemishes. But having small breasts is not a blemish, and people should only have wieght loss surgery for health purposes IMO. I mean there is a differencne between trying to accentuate what is considered attractive universally and fitting yourself to a fad. I mean, thin waists and large breasts is a bit of a fad. Having a mole removed or scars worked on is on the surface of the skin... having bags put inside your breasts is just like stuffing your bra in my opinion

Women who have to change what dna gave them must be pretty insecure. They can't help it if situations left blemishes, but changing what you were destined to have...
I was watching disney's beauty and the beast today (my little sister had it on) and realized that belle's body is absolutely horrendous. I found it so. Our ideals are so unnatural looking.
The only makeup I typically use is to even my skintone and cover acne scars and eye makeup. I don't wear lipstick or blush because I think it looks silly, nor do I wear high heels. A lot of folks think I'm a guy by the way I dress. I don't understand why people would want to manipulate what their genetics gave them... and I find a lot of what women do to look attractive, ridiculous or silly looking. Any healthy women would look a little odd wearing small clothes and gobbed in makeup in highheels...

I guess I just don't see what's so attractive about being unrealistically proportioned. I admit to being attracted to slightly taller guys over shorter ones, but in chicks, I think the most beautiful body is 'average' weight with smaller breasts... kind of like those renaissance paintings of women and such except slightly less lumpy...
I guess there is a difference between beauty and sex now -go figure

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Originally posted by Lizra
I thought about getting Botox, for about one second! Then I figured, sheese, how dumb (for me) So what, I have squint wrinkles in my forehead, screw it! I don't care I'm gonna age no matter what I do, why waste valuable time trying to look young. It would be fake, so I personally would feel like a big phony, walking around with my new smooth forehead.

I'm the only 15 year old with fine wrinkles on her forhead I am a very creased person... Ever since I was a baby I've always had creases/rings around my neck and stomach... I'm not that fat but when I do gain weight I gain it in rolls... I have mini neck rolls! And I'm like 5'5 120 lbs and my stomach has like dents... I wouldn't mind gainind weight if I gained it better.

And as for the metal wings thing... I want to get like a bionic hand like Luke Skywalker got... where you can see all the little metal joins and pivots move around. Too awesome.

[afro-elf]

Originally posted by samwiselvr2008
I dont' do any of these, so no, i'm not being hypocritacle. I buy discount clothes, to, so don't say that that counts against me.

What are you speaking of? Please show me anywhere in my post where I said YOU were a hypocrit.

What I wrote shows that I am in SUPPORT of women ( girl in your case) who do as you do.

Now before you take umbrage at my reply please recall that this is a written media so the emotional import may be lost ( in your post and mine )and I am just stating a response and not attacking you.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
whats interesting is WHY women accentuate their face with make up. Most people dont really think why. Just to look "attaractive" and they leave it at that. but why the face? well several studies have shown that this is actually an attempt to mimic the physiological ratio cues that we have as infants but we lose when we become adults. in other words by bringing attention to and increasing the size of our lips, eyes, cheeks, etc. with lip stick, eye shadow, plucking your eye brows, blush, etc. an adult human comes closer to reaching the much higher ratio range of face features to body size in infants which seems to be one of the main instinctual triggers for nurturing and loving to adults. this makes sense if you think about it since infants are helpless so those that have some features built in to make themeselves attractive and irresistable to adults around them would have a much better survival rate. in this same way those adults who have a system built in where these same features bring about feelings of love and nurturing and protection will do much better because it means they are much more likely to protect and nurture and keep their proginay alive. of course theres a whole lot of culture involved in these practices as well but its interesting to note that accross most cultures accentuation of the facial features is universal even if its done in different ways. so the next you put on some lip stick or eye liner think about it...

That's interesting, but why are those built in infant features attractive and irresistable in the first place, I wonder? And why do men get so aroused by "baby lips" and eyes? It would make more sense for women to be turned on by the "baby face".
Believe me, I wouldn't bother with make up if it didn't give me a "one up"where the fellows are concerned! But let me assure you....it does! Except, AE of course!
I always thought the main thing that aroused men was the "difference" (full soft lips, finer textured, hairless skin, longer lashed eyes and more delicate bone structure) between male and female appearance. Also, I thought we put make-up on our face versus, say our hands, because when people communicate, they do so via the face. Lips move and need to be watched, eyes look at each other, all the facial muscles work to make expressions that "speak". Enhancing your face would seem to get you more attention when communicating, and you must communicate to find a mate. I'm not disagreeing with the baby theory, but it seems like there is more going on than just that bit.

[afro-elf]

Lizra let me clarify if I can. Its not the make up itself that attracts guys its the false you that the illusion creates.

If you had two women that were basically the same but one had to apply make up to match the exact features of the other, I think that one with natural features would be chosen because the cosmetics would not have to be applied.


So you use cosmetics to get an "edge". So I query you again what is the QUALITATIVE deference between the and cosmetic surgery.

ALSO,

it seems that most people here are on about getting bigger breasts.

But, some people what to have surgery to look "normal"

Men might have gynecomastia, women might want breast reduction, you have a really large nose etc....

Some people just want to be "normal". If you have been teased and made fun of it ias not necessarily a matter of trying to be a super model or movie star. IMO, I think that it is ''cruel'' to chastize someone for wanting to accepted in CERTAIN ways.

It's not like changing styles, or cliques people can suffer deep emotional scars. If some plastic surgery can give someone some self esteem more power to them.

[Lizra]

For me, plastic surgery is just too drastic, not worth all the pain and money. Getting that serious of an edge is not neccessary..

I'm sorry, and pardon my denseness here, but my dictionary defines qualitative as : "Of, pertaining to, or concerning quality." I'm really not getting a good enough feel for the word to debate it with you. I told you the difference once...you said that was quantitative! (of, pertaining to quantity )

For me, make-up is a fun little game, plastic surgery is scary and painful and I'm certainly not that desperate. I am theorizing using myself as my data. Someone else...I don't know. This is my opinion.

I once had a creepy boyfriend who loved women wearing lots of make up. It turned him on to see a woman "tarted up" or whatever. He would have gone for the made up woman over the plain one without question. So I think there is a "I'm interested" message given by a woman wearing make-up also. Sexuality is not a pure beauty contest! It's a fun, complex game we play, with many subtleties. I notice (and generally "perk up) when a man is all showered and fresh, smelling good with nice clothes on!
Also, some women look worse with their badly applied or heavy handed make up...so it really doesn't give them a visual edge.

Having surgery to want to look normal is a great idea. If you are "abnormal" it's great that surgery can help. But normal is not a Playboy centerfold!

[BeardofPants]

::shrug:: There are simply some things that, whilst not necessary, can help people to feel better about themselves. Having a nose-job is not necessary, but if having one will make you a happier person, then by all means, go ahead and do it. It really is no different from any other means of beautifying yourself. If I could in some way fix my hearing problem, you can imagine that I'd be first in line to do it. I have had to put up with a lot of **** from ignorant morons about my hearing aid, and my hearing problem; if I could somehow change it so that I was "normal" I know for a fact I'd be a happier person.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Lizra
I always thought the main thing that aroused men was the "difference" (full soft lips, finer textured, hairless skin, longer lashed eyes and more delicate bone structure) between male and female appearance.

yeah that pretty much is how it is for me. that "femaleness". that combination of smoothness and delicateness and curves and diminuitivness and firmness and silkiness that make you as irresistable as candy. yum...

I'm not disagreeing with the baby theory, but it seems like there is more going on than just that bit.

There probably is. I think the infant thing is very subconcious. On both peoples parts. but i also think theres at least an equal lust aspect as there is that nurture aspect. in other words whatever it is you do to your faces also accentuates a sexual desire instinct in men. obviously there are physical cues that females have that males are instincualy attracted to (and yes much to many womens disgust the female breast is one of those. which makes sense if you think about it). A number of theories say it all comes down to copulation (but then what doesnt). If two people have a strong urge to get close up face to face well you can use your imagination as to what other body parts are aligned there. this apparently is why kissing is a universal sexual act. i mean have you ever thought about kissing? what a strange thing to do. why do we do it? what does it accomplish? well i wont go into great detail but suffice it to say it allows two people to get in position when they need to be if you know what i mean. it does other things too (like allow you to be in a situation that would otherwise very threatening - face to face contact - without any of the physiological symptoms of threat) but that would be its most important purpose.

[Arien the Maia]

all this talk about breast inlargement has got me thinking. about 2 years ago, my husband's (then fiance) roommate was talking about have breast augmentation done b/c she was"flat as a board" (her words not mine ) she went on and on about how her and her mom were made fun of b/c of their flat chests. It's a sad thing I think....why is having a large chest so important? What's the point? honestly?

I mentioned this to my mom who thought the idea was ridiculous...but then again is it really so different than having a big nose (like me) and wanting it reduced? Having been teased about it by my brother and others, I know how it feels to "not be pretty"...I think this is where alot of my no self esteem problem comes from. I know it sounds pathetic but really for sensitive people (like me) it is a big deal to be accepted by others...I don't know why

[Lizra]

To Insideous.......Yeah! It's getting hot in here!

(I'm dying over the Pacer game....OT, lost by a point....ohhhh! )

[afro-elf]

Having surgery to want to look normal is a great idea. If you are "abnormal" it's great that surgery can help. But normal is not a Playboy centerfold!

I concur.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by afro-elf
... it seems that most people here are on about getting bigger breasts.

But, some people what to have surgery to look "normal"

Men might have gynecomastia, women might want breast reduction, you have a really large nose etc....

Some people just want to be "normal". If you have been teased and made fun of it ias not necessarily a matter of trying to be a super model or movie star. IMO, I think that it is ''cruel'' to chastize someone for wanting to accepted in CERTAIN ways.

It's not like changing styles, or cliques people can suffer deep emotional scars. If some plastic surgery can give someone some self esteem more power to them.

I agree with this. The point of the surgeons that provide cleft palate surgery in South America and Africa is to help the children get along without prejudice in their society. Differences are pointed out in all societies, not just Western Civilization.

As for bigger breasts, my roommate is a 34-A. She's quite happy with her small breasts and she doesn't wish for anything else. Besides, I think big boobs make one look fatter than one actually is.

As for the makeup comment, I wear some makeup. I mostly don't wear it, but I will wear mascara on occasion. through my experience, however, guys drool over 'high maintanance' chicks. They like the high healed, perfect hair, make-up laden babes. I don't know why they do, but from my experience, they do.

I'm a nature girl. High heals get stuck in the mud at the river and don't grip the rocks well at all, so I wear hiking or backpacking boots. Perfect hair gets squashed under the hat that protects my no-makeup-sunscreen-wearing face from the sun. After all, would you expect anything less from an Elf?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
yeah that pretty much is how it is for me. that "femaleness". that combination of smoothness and delicateness and curves and diminuitivness and firmness and silkiness that make you as irresistable as candy. yum...

gasp! *blushes*

[afro-elf]

high healed

So, Ruinel I have brought you over to the spelling error side.
Mwahhhha!

Ruinel your nature girl thing is my kinda thing.

May we can go through the bush ,down under,and through the outback

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by afro-elf
So, Ruinel I have brought you over to the spelling error side.
Mwahhhha!

eek!

Ruinel your nature girl thing is my kinda thing.

May we can go through the bush ,down under,and through the outback

Perhaps not through the outback, I like to leave that pristine and untouched.

It's well known that when you eat in the bush everything tastes so much better.