Immortality question?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by afro-elf
Maybe I need to clarify. If the option became availiable would you "stand in the way" of those who wanted it?

No, I would not stand in the way of those who wanted it. I know the Atani want to shed the Gift given to them, and I would not stand in their way.

But what happens when you've lived 10's of thousands of years here and you grow tired of this life? Would there be an option to give up your life willingly?

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
I'm also reminded of a more recent work- I believe it was 'Cabinet of Curiousities' by Douglas and Preston. In it, a mad scientist creates an immortality serum and uses it to extend his life while he plans to destroy the human race. The conclusion at the end is ironic- that if he had simply released his serum to the public, humanity would have destroyed itself.

Ah, you beat me to it. I was also reminded of that book but couldn't remember the English title.

If immortality could be achieved through bio-technology or gen-engeneering or something like it; I think I would try to stop it from becoming available to the public. Not on moral grounds, but more on practical ones.

Imagine if everyone became immortal: health services would become thoroughly shortcoming, all remaining ecosystems would be destroyed to make place for the expanding population, not to mention food shortages; whole societies would collapse IMO. Much of the balance of our surroundings depends on our 'short' life-span. Not to mention that I expect every genetic tampering to have a back lash some generations later. Immortality could -indeed quite ironically- become the death of us.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Eärniel
... I think I would try to stop it from becoming available to the public. Not on moral grounds, but more on practical ones.

Imagine if everyone became immortal: health services would become thoroughly shortcoming, all remaining ecosystems would be destroyed to make place for the expanding population, not to mention food shortages; whole societies would collapse IMO. Much of the balance of our surroundings depends on our 'short' life-span. Not to mention that I expect every genetic tampering to have a back lash some generations later. Immortality could -indeed quite ironically- become the death of us.

If Atani lived like the Eldar, that wouldn't be necessarily so. But as for giving immortality to an Atan, they might realize that it is more a burden than the 'gift' they think it to be.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
I'm not interested in that kind of immortal, thank you When I want to talk to IRex, I want to talk to IRex - not IRex's atoms dispersed throughout the universe, which will not be able to talk to me anyway; or IRex's kids, who are NOT IRex.

well thats the level of immortality Im comfortable with. And it really is the only true version of immortality. matter cannot be destroyed after all. but if you want the fairy tale kind well its possible some day the "human" species will actually be all machine. we will have replaced our failing parts bit by bit by bionics and synthetic parts and we will eventually download our brain onto something so that "we" wont actualy exist physically but our esscence will be captured in a data stream which can access machine parts forever. what a brave new world that will be...

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
well thats the level of immortality Im comfortable with. And it really is the only true version of immortality. matter cannot be destroyed after all. but if you want the fairy tale kind well its possible some day the "human" species will actually be all machine. we will have replaced our failing parts bit by bit by bionics and synthetic parts and we will eventually download our brain onto something so that "we" wont actualy exist physically but our esscence will be captured in a data stream which can access machine parts forever. what a brave new world that will be...

But even though a dog and a human are made up of basically the same elemental particles, it does not mean that a dog is a human nor vice versa.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Ruinel
But even though a dog and a human are made up of basically the same elemental particles, it does not mean that a dog is a human nor vice versa.

this was in reply to my comment?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
this was in reply to my comment?

In reply to your "vision of immortality" part, not the Man as machine part.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Ruinel
In reply to your "vision of immortality" part, not the Man as machine part.

oh well its all in how all the bits come together. but the bits themselves are immortal. but our bodies are but a brief flash in this ongoing massive chemical reaction we call the universe. its an illusion that we are somehow distinct and seperate at all.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
well thats the level of immortality Im comfortable with.

Yes, it's a rather safe and comfortable one.

And it really is the only true version of immortality.

No, it's not

but if you want the fairy tale kind well its possible some day the "human" species will actually be all machine. we will have replaced our failing parts bit by bit by bionics and synthetic parts and we will eventually download our brain onto something so that "we" wont actualy exist physically but our esscence will be captured in a data stream which can access machine parts forever. what a brave new world that will be...

What a sickening vision

[Rían]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
its an illusion that we are somehow distinct and seperate at all.

Then why do you object so strenuously when you think I'm accusing you of any wrongdoing, if everything is an illusion and we're not distinct beings with the ability to choose?

[Rían]

Originally posted by Ruinel
But even though a dog and a human are made up of basically the same elemental particles, it does not mean that a dog is a human nor vice versa.

I agree *calls her dog over to her computer terminal*

Here, Buddy, type in something for the nice people!

bgnvvfbbnmk Woof!

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Then why do you object so strenuously when you think I'm accusing you of any wrongdoing, if everything is an illusion and we're not distinct beings with the ability to choose?

"objecting" and interacting and communicating and propogating and anything else that we can do or that ends in -ing is ALL part of this grand chemical reaction. in a virtual blink of an eye we will both be dead and perhaps our atoms will now be mixed together in a banana or a whale or a computer moniter even (how ironic huh?) and although we never met in our "live human" form our matter will mingle in another form perhaps. Just because its all one glob doesnt mean the bits dont interact with each other. Its REALLY hard to conceptualize this I know because we ARE the littel bit of flame that exists for a microsecond suspended above the rest of the flame but if you speed up the whole thing about 10 million times faster youll see how its all one flowing churning object. sentience is fleating to say the least. it all goes back into the same thing.

[afro-elf]

There is a burgeoning movement to achieve this now.



http://www.imminst.org/

http://www.betterhumans.com/

http://anti-ageing.us/


http://www.gen.cam.ac.uk/sens/index.html

[Starr Polish]

but if you want the fairy tale kind well its possible some day the "human" species will actually be all machine. we will have replaced our failing parts bit by bit by bionics and synthetic parts and we will eventually download our brain onto something so that "we" wont actualy exist physically but our esscence will be captured in a data stream which can access machine parts forever. what a brave new world that will be...

This is flippin' scary.

I believe being able to achieve immortality would cheapen life. And, hey, no one would ever know if we REALLY achieved immortality, would they?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
"objecting" and interacting and communicating and propogating and anything else that we can do or that ends in -ing is ALL part of this grand chemical reaction. in a virtual blink of an eye we will both be dead and perhaps our atoms will now be mixed together in a banana or a whale or a computer moniter even (how ironic huh?) and although we never met in our "live human" form our matter will mingle in another form perhaps. Just because its all one glob doesnt mean the bits dont interact with each other. Its REALLY hard to conceptualize this I know because we ARE the littel bit of flame that exists for a microsecond suspended above the rest of the flame but if you speed up the whole thing about 10 million times faster youll see how its all one flowing churning object. sentience is fleating to say the least. it all goes back into the same thing.

Actually, if you get buried, your body is put into a sealed casket where the mold and fungus spores that we are normally exposed to everyday from the air begin to grow on your skin and you become covered in slime. Over time, slower than if you were exposed because of the embalming process, the slime covered carcass that once was you or I begins to decompose. But because of the sealed casket and the burial vault that the casket is placed in... which is sealed... you don't get turned back to the earth. Sorry dude. Your atoms stay with you.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Actually, if you get buried, your body is put into a sealed casket where the mold and fungus spores that we are normally exposed to everyday from the air begin to grow on your skin and you become covered in slime. Over time, slower than if you were exposed because of the embalming process, the slime covered carcass that once was you or I begins to decompose. But because of the sealed casket and the burial vault that the casket is placed in... which is sealed... you don't get turned back to the earth. Sorry dude. Your atoms stay with you.

are you kidding? do you really think a sealed casket can out last the virtual eternal patience of universal time? 10,000 years is the blink of an eye. 10 million years is nothing for that matter. your atoms and the atoms in that casket will return again to the fold. fear not.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
are you kidding? do you really think a sealed casket can out last the virtual eternal patience of universal time? 10,000 years is the blink of an eye. 10 million years is nothing for that matter. your atoms and the atoms in that casket will return again to the fold. fear not.

No, but its going to be a long time before those polyurethane caskets and reinforced vaults lined with rubber-like sealing will break down and give up your elemental-ass to the cosmos.

[Insidious Rex]

Thats the problem with this universe. Not enough people give up their elemental ass enough.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Thats the problem with this universe. Not enough people give up their elemental ass enough.

Yep... I agree. I've always made it clear that I want the cheapest pine box available and to drill holes in it for the worms to eat my flesh... thus returning me to the earth from which I came.

[Hasty Ent]

Originally posted by afro-elf
I have a question, if the option for immortality becomes available through bio-technology would you attempt to prevent it being used?

E.g.Some people are against cloning and protest against it to prevent it from being used on their own personal moral grounds.

Or would you support it?

Not at all. If someone were interested in becoming immortal I would be fascinated in watching the process. I'd love to see how people would cope with the idea that they FINALLY had all the time in the world to do everything they always wanted to do.

As for the issues of limited resources, pollution, etc, if our technology were so advanced that we could prolong life indefinitely, I'm pretty sure we'd have solutions for all kinds of other problems.

I'm not sure I'd be terribly interested in immortality for myself, though. My fondest dream is that this can't last forever, and once it's over there's nothing else. Still, now that I'll be passing 40 in a few weeks I can see how it would be appealing to some people. **shrug**

as for the whole burial thing.... UGH!.... I've left instructions that once any useful body parts have been harvested, I'd like the unused portion of my body to be cremated....