Shiite Muslim Clerics....

Dúnedain · 03-17-2003, 01:16 AM

*DISCLAIMER* Admins please don't padlock this I am not attempting to revive the Iraq thread, this is something that was reported today that I would like for the members to dicuss with civility, considering the state of the world and with tomorrow (Monday) being an important day for it.

Also, 'Mooters, please no flames or anything of that nature, I'd really like to see civil replies on this....

--------------

I read today, and I also saw on 3 News channels a report about the top shiite muslim clerics from Iran and Kuwait who spoke out in regards to the US wanting to invade. Surprisingly these highly regarded muslims publicly stated that they feel that the US has a just cause in wanting to overthrow Saddam, because he is a dictator and harming his Muslim people.

I was shocked and amazed that I had seen such a statement, because some of these clerics have been known to endorse suicide bombings and now they have made it apparent to a portion of their fellow muslims that they agree with this action.

I am trying to find the article, but I am having a hard time locating it now

Anyway, did anyone else run into this report today and what were your reactions to it?

PLEASE BE CIVIL IN THIS THREAD!

jerseydevil · 03-17-2003, 02:08 AM

I haven't heard anything about that. Most of it has been about clerics calling on Jihad and the destruction of America.

If that is true though - I wonder how long they'll be alive.

Artanis · 03-17-2003, 03:47 AM

I haven't seen it, but I wouldn't be that surprised. Both Iran and Kuwait have been in war with Iraq and said Saddam. One of my husband's colleagues is from Iran, he says most people in Iran would strongly support a removal of Saddam, they more or less hate him, so these clerics wouldn't necessarily have their heads chopped off. The muslim world are not acting as one on this issue, there are many nuances and different opinions there as well.

Lizra · 03-17-2003, 07:57 AM

As the locals say around here...."I can't hardly believe that!"

GrayMouser · 03-17-2003, 11:58 AM

Not particularly surprising; Iraq is a majority Shiite nation which since its creation has been ruled by a Sunni dictatorship, and there is no love lost between Shiites and Sunnis.

And Saddam did invade both Kuwait and Iran. Of course at that time Iran under Ayatollah Khomeini was considered to be the Islamic fundamentalist threat, so Saddam's blatant aggression and use of poison gas was condoned and supported by the West- remember that picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands and giving a big smile to Saddam?

The only thing that is a bit unusual is endorsements from Iran - these might be Iraqi clerics who fled to Iran to escape persecution; as far as I know the official position of Iran is that, much as they would like to see Saddam blown into tiny little bits, they're not particularly happy about the precedent of pre-emptive war or 200,000 American troops next door, especially after George W. made them part of the axis of evil.

Both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have Shiite minorities, and they've always been wary of the possibility of them being stirred up by Iran- one reason that neither of them is much in favour of democracy next door- they'd much prefer to see another Sunni general in place.

Lizra · 03-17-2003, 12:03 PM

Talk about walking on eggshells!

GrayMouser · 03-17-2003, 12:18 PM

And remember, when Iraq invaded Kuwait, Osama bin Laden went to the Saudi government and offered to lead his Afghan-trained fighters in a Holy War against the infidel socialist dog Saddam. It was only when the Saudi rulers chose to put their faith in the US Armed Forces instead (pretty wisely) that Osama turned against them.( in his last communique he said that it was Muslims' duty to fight against America EVEN IF it meant defending the secularists in Baghdad. )

Saddam's main grievance against Kuwait and Saudi Arabia in 1989 was that he had spent Iraq's blood and treasure to protect the Arab world against Fundamentalist Iran, and now he wanted some payback (both Saudi and Kuwait as always more than happy to let someone else do the fighting and dying to protect them)

03-17-2003, 01:16 AM	#1
Dúnedain High King of Númenórë Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenórë <--United States of America Posts: 1,947	Shiite Muslim Clerics.... DISCLAIMER Admins please don't padlock this I am not attempting to revive the Iraq thread, this is something that was reported today that I would like for the members to dicuss with civility, considering the state of the world and with tomorrow (Monday) being an important day for it. Also, 'Mooters, please no flames or anything of that nature, I'd really like to see civil replies on this.... -------------- I read today, and I also saw on 3 News channels a report about the top shiite muslim clerics from Iran and Kuwait who spoke out in regards to the US wanting to invade. Surprisingly these highly regarded muslims publicly stated that they feel that the US has a just cause in wanting to overthrow Saddam, because he is a dictator and harming his Muslim people. I was shocked and amazed that I had seen such a statement, because some of these clerics have been known to endorse suicide bombings and now they have made it apparent to a portion of their fellow muslims that they agree with this action. I am trying to find the article, but I am having a hard time locating it now Anyway, did anyone else run into this report today and what were your reactions to it? PLEASE BE CIVIL IN THIS THREAD! __________________ 'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen Last edited by Dúnedain : 03-17-2003 at 01:17 AM.

03-17-2003, 02:08 AM	#2
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I haven't heard anything about that. Most of it has been about clerics calling on Jihad and the destruction of America. If that is true though - I wonder how long they'll be alive. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

03-17-2003, 03:47 AM	#3
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	Re: Shiite Muslim Clerics.... I haven't seen it, but I wouldn't be that surprised. Both Iran and Kuwait have been in war with Iraq and said Saddam. One of my husband's colleagues is from Iran, he says most people in Iran would strongly support a removal of Saddam, they more or less hate him, so these clerics wouldn't necessarily have their heads chopped off. The muslim world are not acting as one on this issue, there are many nuances and different opinions there as well. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

03-17-2003, 07:57 AM	#4
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	As the locals say around here...."I can't hardly believe that!" __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

03-17-2003, 11:58 AM	#5
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	Not particularly surprising; Iraq is a majority Shiite nation which since its creation has been ruled by a Sunni dictatorship, and there is no love lost between Shiites and Sunnis. And Saddam did invade both Kuwait and Iran. Of course at that time Iran under Ayatollah Khomeini was considered to be the Islamic fundamentalist threat, so Saddam's blatant aggression and use of poison gas was condoned and supported by the West- remember that picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands and giving a big smile to Saddam? The only thing that is a bit unusual is endorsements from Iran - these might be Iraqi clerics who fled to Iran to escape persecution; as far as I know the official position of Iran is that, much as they would like to see Saddam blown into tiny little bits, they're not particularly happy about the precedent of pre-emptive war or 200,000 American troops next door, especially after George W. made them part of the axis of evil. Both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have Shiite minorities, and they've always been wary of the possibility of them being stirred up by Iran- one reason that neither of them is much in favour of democracy next door- they'd much prefer to see another Sunni general in place. __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill

03-17-2003, 12:03 PM	#6
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Talk about walking on eggshells! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

03-17-2003, 12:18 PM	#7
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	And remember, when Iraq invaded Kuwait, Osama bin Laden went to the Saudi government and offered to lead his Afghan-trained fighters in a Holy War against the infidel socialist dog Saddam. It was only when the Saudi rulers chose to put their faith in the US Armed Forces instead (pretty wisely) that Osama turned against them.( in his last communique he said that it was Muslims' duty to fight against America EVEN IF it meant defending the secularists in Baghdad. ) Saddam's main grievance against Kuwait and Saudi Arabia in 1989 was that he had spent Iraq's blood and treasure to protect the Arab world against Fundamentalist Iran, and now he wanted some payback (both Saudi and Kuwait as always more than happy to let someone else do the fighting and dying to protect them) __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill

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