02-17-2003, 03:37 AM | #101 | ||
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I think that Eomer's men had a lot more orcs to kill than that, but it's entirely possible. Lets say that Helm's Deep, being a fortess built to withstand a long seige, has stacks and stacks of arrows. Elven archers are awesome, and can fire off tons of arrows in a night. Also, the Rohirrim aren't bad archers by any means.
Let's say the defenders averaged out at killing 15 orcs each. (You'll have some people like Legolas and Gimli who took out 41 and 42 respectively, and others like Hama's son who might not kill as many.) 300 people would kill 4500 orcs. That leaves about 5500 for Eomers 2000 to take care of. Tough odds, but Eomer has four advantages. 1) Fresher troops 2) Higher ground 3) Braver and more skilled troops 4) Surprise As was pointed out before, orcs aren't really the sort to bravely stand their ground when the tide of battle has turned against them.
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02-17-2003, 02:50 PM | #102 |
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To add a point to Nurvingiel's dead-on commentary:
Not only did Eomer's troops have the element of surprise, they also had the advantage of the rising sun. Even though Saruman's orcs were bred to travel by daylight, it isn't hard to imagine that they still loathed the sun and had eyes that would have trouble adjusting to intense sunlight. So the combination of a surprise counter-attack AND the bright, rising sun shining directly in their faces from the direction of their new foes would have been too much for most of them. Whether the number of orcs was 2000 or 5000, it's easy to understand given their character and the situation why they would turn tail and run. |
02-18-2003, 02:59 AM | #103 | ||
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Thanks BB! And now, since it scary for us to agree for an entire thread... (Just kidding!)
You mentioned the rising sun, and someone said that Gandalf said, "Look for me in the West, ere the sun rises on the fifth day," or something to that effect. I always thought he said, "Look for me when the sun rises," which also sounds good. Because if he didn't say "West" then no problem, but if he did, then there's confusion.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-18-2003, 07:06 AM | #104 | |
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Gandalf's actual quote was:
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02-18-2003, 01:24 PM | #105 | |
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Quote:
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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02-18-2003, 08:31 PM | #106 | ||
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Thanks BB, that clears it all up. Except Cirdan, you've gone ahead and confused me again. What's in the East and what's 34 times?
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-18-2003, 08:51 PM | #107 |
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Gandalf's quote means he will arrive at sunrise. What was meant was look to the east for the sunrise, for that is [i[when[/i] he will arrive. The charge by Erkenbrand, Gandalf & Co. comes from the west. The east wall of the coomb is impassable.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
02-19-2003, 02:31 AM | #108 | ||
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Thanks Cirdan! That totally makes sense now! I never did have the best sense of direction.
Now everything is happy jolly.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-20-2003, 07:44 AM | #109 | |
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02-20-2003, 11:47 AM | #110 |
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Impassable. Impossible to pass, cross, or overcome Incapable of being passed; not admitting a passage Impossible to pass All three definitions from dictionary.com. My emphasis added, of course.
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02-20-2003, 04:58 PM | #111 |
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Gwaimir Windgem,
Very Funny. I am sure BB meant to say something else (like the Western slope). I think I am begining to understand another reason why some people had problems with the charge of Gandalf, Eomer & company. [It does not make sense with the Geography of ME and/or a Sun that rises in the East] I never thought much about the rising sun at all. Sincerely, Anthony
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) |
02-23-2003, 04:35 AM | #112 | |||
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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