The Ringwraiths and the Ring

Attalus · 12-31-2002, 03:42 PM

I think that the part about Sauron's being lessened when he let a great portion of his former power pass into the Ring is very interesting. Aragorn and Gandalf both said that the Ringwraiths were drawn to the Ring, but they passed very closely to it without knowing exactly where it was, letting, I guess, the Black Horses serve as their eyes, and, they being fooled, not seeing the Ringbearer and his companions. The "sniffing" has always bothered me, for if they were seeking the location of the ring, and their sense was all that keen, why didn't they find it immediately? My guess is that they could vaguely sense that the Ring was in the immediate vicinity, and were actually willing the Ringbearer to put on the Ring, so that they could locate him, which actually happened on Weathertop. Now, they had no power of their own except fear and physically, correct? Were they asking Sauron's power in the Ring to make the Bearer don it?

markedel · 12-31-2002, 07:41 PM

The ringwraiths had powers of domination. They dominated those who Sauron wished to dominate. And their wills, of course, were subservient to Sauron due to their rings.

Falagar · 12-31-2002, 08:21 PM

They had the Black Breath.

Attalus · 12-31-2002, 08:25 PM

But, that is what I mean. The Black Breath induces terror and demoraization. They could not subdue any one on theri own, except through physical means.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 12-31-2002, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Attalus
I think that the part about Sauron's being lessened when he let a great portion of his former power pass into the Ring is very interesting. Aragorn and Gandalf both said that the Ringwraiths were drawn to the Ring, but they passed very closely to it without knowing exactly where it was, letting, I guess, the Black Horses serve as their eyes, and, they being fooled, not seeing the Ringbearer and his companions. The "sniffing" has always bothered me, for if they were seeking the location of the ring, and their sense was all that keen, why didn't they find it immediately? My guess is that they could vaguely sense that the Ring was in the immediate vicinity, and were actually willing the Ringbearer to put on the Ring, so that they could locate him, which actually happened on Weathertop. Now, they had no power of their own except fear and physically, correct? Were they asking Sauron's power in the Ring to make the Bearer don it?

I agree with this. It is like it all depended on a strong sense, but what sense? Smell? Not sight. Or could it have been a sense of pure intuition. The Ring called to them through Sauron. Was the Ring Sentient? May well be. It did posess a great part of Sauron's power.

Welcome to Entmoot Attalus. Nice to see you here too.

Artanis · 01-01-2003, 09:22 AM

In "The shadow from the past" Gandalf talks about the Ring as if it had a will of its own. The Ring was trying to get back to Sauron, its master. Sauron had put most of his spiritual power into the Ring, so it is not that surprising it could feel the presence of the Ringwraiths, and vice versa.

On Weathertop, and on other similar occasions, I do think that the wraiths and the Ring was working on Frodo's will together, to make him put the Ring on.

Attalus · 01-01-2003, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair

Welcome to Entmoot Attalus. Nice to see you here too.

Thank you very much for telling me about it. It has been most interesting, so far.

samwiselvr2008 · 01-01-2003, 04:07 PM

Well, they also had there sowds, like the one that Frodo was stabbed with. I believe that the book said that there main power was in scarrying others, but I don't believe that that was there only one, if I am understanding your question correctly.

Attalus · 01-01-2003, 04:36 PM

Actually, that was a Morgul Knife that breaks off in the wound that stabbed Frodo. I was referring to this, as well as the mace of the King of the Ringwraiths when I referred to physical threat. Magically, the Black Breath and the horror of their presence and voices seem to be the only one. Of course, you don't need much when you cannot be wounded by men.

The Lady of Ithilien · 01-02-2003, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Attalus
The "sniffing" has always bothered me, for if they were seeking the location of the ring, and their sense was all that keen, why didn't they find it immediately? My guess is that they could vaguely sense that the Ring was in the immediate vicinity, and were actually willing the Ringbearer to put on the Ring, so that they could locate him, which actually happened on Weathertop. Now, they had no power of their own except fear and physically, correct? Were they asking Sauron's power in the Ring to make the Bearer don it?

What a good way to describe it! That's what it seems like they were doing. As for the sniffing, we only have the hobbits' description of it, and they weren't familiar with the ways and movements of the undead, so it could have been some odd, uncanny movement that most resembled sniffing; the way the Nazgul moved at the Ferry to Buckland was most bizarre, after all. However, Aragorn did say at Weathertop that the Nazgul smelled and desired the blood of living things.

Attalus · 01-02-2003, 11:05 PM

That is true. So, if they sensed the Ring to be nearby, then they would have searched about for a living sentient being as being the most likely thing to be wearing or bearing the Ring! That is excellent. Thank you, Lady of Ithilien.

The Lady of Ithilien · 01-04-2003, 09:39 AM

Thanks, Attalus, but it was Aragorn who said it

Seriously, it's hard to think of another book that can be reread so often (somebody in one of the other threads said they had been reading The Lord of the Rings once each year for the past 20 years, and I gave up counting after 13 times) and be so consistent in every detail. Writers are supposed to do that, of course, but JRRT carried it to levels possibly unheard of before. And not just consistent, but with ever new details jumping out at the reader. Wow!

Attalus · 01-04-2003, 11:40 AM

For a while, after I got my leather-bound one-volume version back in the 1970's, I wrote the date that I finished each time on the end-papers. When I got to thirty nine, I stopped. Yes, and the consistency was a borderline obsession with him. He was always going back and correcting.

diannah · 01-04-2003, 11:45 AM

I don't think that the power of the Ringwraiths has to do with the five senses as we know them. I think (this is rather hard to explain) that they have a sense of presence, so to speak. They can feel the ring and that is what they are made for. I think the only other time (and this is purely hypothetically) that they have any of our five senses is when Sauron gives it to them to do a particular task for him. All they have to do now is sense the ring and their rides can do the rest. Didn't Gandalf or somebody say that when Sauron came to full power that so would the Ringwraiths? Something to that effect anyway...

Eothain · 01-06-2003, 04:26 PM

They had the black breath.

12-31-2002, 03:42 PM	#1
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	The Ringwraiths and the Ring I think that the part about Sauron's being lessened when he let a great portion of his former power pass into the Ring is very interesting. Aragorn and Gandalf both said that the Ringwraiths were drawn to the Ring, but they passed very closely to it without knowing exactly where it was, letting, I guess, the Black Horses serve as their eyes, and, they being fooled, not seeing the Ringbearer and his companions. The "sniffing" has always bothered me, for if they were seeking the location of the ring, and their sense was all that keen, why didn't they find it immediately? My guess is that they could vaguely sense that the Ring was in the immediate vicinity, and were actually willing the Ringbearer to put on the Ring, so that they could locate him, which actually happened on Weathertop. Now, they had no power of their own except fear and physically, correct? Were they asking Sauron's power in the Ring to make the Bearer don it? __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

12-31-2002, 07:41 PM	#2
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	The ringwraiths had powers of domination. They dominated those who Sauron wished to dominate. And their wills, of course, were subservient to Sauron due to their rings. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

12-31-2002, 08:21 PM	#3
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	They had the Black Breath. __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle.

12-31-2002, 08:25 PM	#4
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	But, that is what I mean. The Black Breath induces terror and demoraization. They could not subdue any one on theri own, except through physical means. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

01-01-2003, 09:22 AM	#6
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	In "The shadow from the past" Gandalf talks about the Ring as if it had a will of its own. The Ring was trying to get back to Sauron, its master. Sauron had put most of his spiritual power into the Ring, so it is not that surprising it could feel the presence of the Ringwraiths, and vice versa. On Weathertop, and on other similar occasions, I do think that the wraiths and the Ring was working on Frodo's will together, to make him put the Ring on. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

01-01-2003, 04:07 PM	#8
samwiselvr2008 Elf Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 739	Well, they also had there sowds, like the one that Frodo was stabbed with. I believe that the book said that there main power was in scarrying others, but I don't believe that that was there only one, if I am understanding your question correctly. __________________ Jesus loves you! Movie vewing count from the theater: Return of the King:9 Two Towers: 11 Fellowship: 13 FRODO LIVES!

01-01-2003, 04:36 PM	#9
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	Actually, that was a Morgul Knife that breaks off in the wound that stabbed Frodo. I was referring to this, as well as the mace of the King of the Ringwraiths when I referred to physical threat. Magically, the Black Breath and the horror of their presence and voices seem to be the only one. Of course, you don't need much when you cannot be wounded by men. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

01-02-2003, 11:05 PM	#11
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	That is true. So, if they sensed the Ring to be nearby, then they would have searched about for a living sentient being as being the most likely thing to be wearing or bearing the Ring! That is excellent. Thank you, Lady of Ithilien. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

01-04-2003, 11:40 AM	#13
Attalus Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 1,125	For a while, after I got my leather-bound one-volume version back in the 1970's, I wrote the date that I finished each time on the end-papers. When I got to thirty nine, I stopped. Yes, and the consistency was a borderline obsession with him. He was always going back and correcting. __________________ "What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial.

01-04-2003, 11:45 AM	#14
diannah Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: bethel, ME Posts: 43	I don't think that the power of the Ringwraiths has to do with the five senses as we know them. I think (this is rather hard to explain) that they have a sense of presence, so to speak. They can feel the ring and that is what they are made for. I think the only other time (and this is purely hypothetically) that they have any of our five senses is when Sauron gives it to them to do a particular task for him. All they have to do now is sense the ring and their rides can do the rest. Didn't Gandalf or somebody say that when Sauron came to full power that so would the Ringwraiths? Something to that effect anyway...

01-06-2003, 04:26 PM	#15
Eothain Enting Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 73	LOTR They had the black breath. __________________ Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpsting, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have past like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning? Frodo lives