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#1 |
King of Nargothrond
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada! eh?
Posts: 2,002
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The disappearance of Maglor and Daeron
Ok, in the Silmarillion it says that after Maglor threw his Silmaril into the sea he wandered the shores singing and never came back among the elves. Where'd he end up?
Daeron of Doriath, after Luthien's departure, went over the Ered Luin and made music for many ages, so what happened to him? Does anyone know where the two greatesat singers of the elves went?
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"THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!" |
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#2 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: European Union
Posts: 463
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Sorry, no knowledge of where they went. But it is funny the two greatest Elven singers met with such similar fates in the end. I wonder how come?
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'They need more gardens,' said Legolas. 'The houses are dead, and there is too little here that grows and is glad. If Aragorn comes into his own, the people of the Wood shall bring him birds that sing and trees that do not die.' |
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#3 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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In The Road Goes Ever On (a book published by Tolkien and Donald Swann during the former's lifetime) Tolkien says that Galadriel was the last of the leaders of the Etyañgoldi (Exiled Noldor) at the end of the First Age. That means Maglor was no longer there. I assume Maglor died some time in the First Age, then.
I have no clue about Daeron. I like to imagine him still singing his sad songs of Lúthien the Beloved in the Fourth Age by the Sea. It is curious we are never told what ends the mighty singers came to. But it's possible they now walk in Valinor.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#4 |
King of Nargothrond
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada! eh?
Posts: 2,002
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Unless Maglor let himself die by starving or something, he would still be alive right? After all, elves don't grow old.
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#5 |
King of Nargothrond
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada! eh?
Posts: 2,002
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Maglor never came back among the elves so Galadriel would have been the only leader left but not necessarily the only one left alive. The second age started at Morgoth's defeat, Maglor was alive, at least for a time after that.
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#6 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Elves can still be killed, or die of grief.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#7 | |
Enting
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 71
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Quote:
"The question SÃ* man i yulma nin enquantuva? and the question at the end of her song (Vol. I, p. 389), What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?, refer to the special position of Galadriel. She was the last survivor of the princes and queens who had led the revolting Noldor to exile in Middle-earth. After the overthrow of Morgoth at the end of the First Age a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so." This is also borne out by Letter 297: "The exiles were allowed to return - save for a few chief actors in the rebellion of whom at the time of the L. R. only Galadriel remained." There are a couple of references to Maglor in the Second Age, for example Lost Road notes that Elrond and Maglor dwelt together for a time (Quenta Silmarillion, Conclusion, paragraph $28, pg 332 of the hardcover), after the War of Wrath. I seem to recall another later one, but I can't find it off hand, and may be mistaken
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Tar-Elenion Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue. |
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#8 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Queen's
Posts: 1,245
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In "Lord of the whatever one of the ministrels shows up in Ithilien-garden of Gondor (tm)
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"Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom" |
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#9 |
Head Hollara
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 751
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Well, I see markedel likes to speak in riddles, because I have no idea what that post means. The only quotations I've seen travel in pairs
![]() Anyway, I don't think they were meant to come back into the story, kind of like Hurin who, if I recall correctly, cast himself into the sea (according to rumour). I doubt they were meant to return into the stories, and their fate was inconsequential.
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"People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us. |
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#10 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Queen's
Posts: 1,245
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Lord of the whatever is a funny (if coarse) LOTR parody courtesy of the rec.arts.tolkien newsgroup that I found on the "flying moose of nargothond" website. One of the ministrels shows up in (drug filled) Ithilien to annoy Sam as he sings.
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"Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom" |
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#11 |
Head Hollara
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 751
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Ah. I see.
[If it weren't for this additional sentence, this would be my shortest post ever!]
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"People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us. |
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#12 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Quote:
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#13 |
King of Nargothrond
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada! eh?
Posts: 2,002
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I'd still really like to know where Tolkien "sent" Maglor!
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"THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!" |
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#14 |
Elven Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 892
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Nothing in The Book of Lost Tales is relevant to the stories of either The Lord of the Rings or The Silmarillion. Maglor's fate is unknown, but it can be stated with absolute surety that he did not dwell with Elrond in the Second Age because there is no text which states he did. There was no "Second Age" when Tolkien worked on The Book of Lost Tales.
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#15 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
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I think he lives in torment having lost all he knew, and broken an oath that should never have been spoken. His life is a living purgatory and he forsakes his name and becomes a loner lost in the wilds of middle earth. I think Tolkien leaves us to imagine this terrible existence and says no more.
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cya |
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#16 |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
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Maybe he faded.
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#17 | ||||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany
Posts: 192
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Sorry that I had again to gainsay you Michael.
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Best Regards Findegil |
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#18 |
King of Nargothrond
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada! eh?
Posts: 2,002
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On top of that, in the Silmarillion, it says Maglor never came back among the elves. Although it's possible that meant of ME. Maybe he's in Valinor? I dunno.
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"THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!" |
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#19 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 306
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I seriously doubt that Maglor would ever be able to return to Valinor after what he did. Remember though that Middle Earth is a lot bigger than we think. I mean, there is only really the North talked about in the books. If the Ethryn Luin (Alatar and Pallando) could disappear into the East then why couldn't have Maglor?
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#20 | ||||||
Elven Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 892
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Quote:
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My opinion is irrelevant, and that is why I haven't shared it. Quote:
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The events described in The Book of Lost Tales are told loosely connected group of stories which are supposedly set in ancient Britain (that part of Britain which became England, in fact). There are very specific associations between the English landscape and geography and some of the stories. Furthermore, the mythology refers in several places to the arrival of the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes in England. There are no such associations in either The Lord of the Rings or The Silmarillion. Christopher Tolkien states unequivocably that The Book of Lost Tales is not The Silmarillion: Quote:
He goes on to say: Quote:
It is completely pointless to confuse and intermingle these two literary worlds, because the later one only borrows from the earlier one. They are not interchangeable or in any way compatible with one another. The facts may inconveniently derail all notions about direct connections between The Book of Lost Tales and the later books, but they remain facts. Calling them my opinion or anyone's opinion even a thousand times is a waste of effort. You cannot change facts. |
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