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#1 | |||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,080
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U.S. Immigration
I was wondering what the local 'mooters' had to say on this issue. Its a fairly big issue in my area because a huge part of our population are legal and illegal immigrant workers.
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I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
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#2 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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Down with tough anti-immigration laws, I say.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#3 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Very interesting thread! I don't really know anything about US Immigration, but I will be lurking in this thread, absolutely.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#4 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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I think we should make immigration much easier and just give citizenship to the ones that are already in-country.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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#5 | ||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,080
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I'm liking McCain's bill because its really the only practical solution, and its basically the solution that I came up with when I had to write an essay on this topic last semester.
I don't usually agree with McCain but his is the best plan out there at this point that I can see.
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I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
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#6 | |||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,080
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I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
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#7 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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It's certainly a complex issue - I'll join the lurking crowd ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! ![]() "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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#8 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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#9 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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I've spent quite a few hours recently going over the school's candy sale for next year. Talk about nasty politics!
![]() The PTA is trying to cut our budget for running the thing in half!?!?! And we bring in over $20,000 for them for school improvements every year! I told the lady in charge of the candy sale that she needs to politely but firmly tell them her terms for heading up the sale, which include keeping the budget from last year, and then it is their choice - they can either accept her with her terms or look for someone else (good luck! Ain't no one wanna take that job!). We, as volunteers, give hundreds of hours of time for our school's benefit, and it is NOT right to drive us into the ground by making us scrounge for things that were in the budget last year. No one wants to head up the thing because of all the stupid politics involved, so she's in a strong position. I told her to USE that strong position. I don't know why the PTF is being so stupid about it. I mean, either take her terms and get $20,000, or don't take the terms and get nothing. Seems like a no-brainer to me ... [/vent] (I guess I was in the wrong thread ![]()
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! ![]() "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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#10 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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The main issues: 1) People come to the US for a better way of life and will continue to no matter what kind of walls and enforcement we put in place. Our resources would be better spent trying to help the countries they are coming from improve their economies so they do not want to leave. The problem is that US corporations like being able to relocate to Mexico and get cheap labor. One way to change this is to force US corporations abroad to respect some of the same labor laws we enforce here in the US, instead of letting them basically do whatever the host country is willing to let them. 2) Since the illegal immigrants in the US are not citizens, they have no rights and employers can and do pay them sub-standard wages. Giving them citizenship would at least force employers to follow US labor laws. Either way, it means more competition for US jobs, but this is a fact we must accept. 3) It will be a painful transition, much like when Germany took down the wall and accepted all the East Germans as citizens, a huge group of people who had a much lower standard of living than those of the West. But, over the long term, it was better for both cultures. Basically, it is in everyone's interest to eventually have a basic standard of living shared by all the people of the world, and the best way to start is locally and let it expand. The alternative, having poor nation's workers basically subsidize the US standard of living, only leads to more trouble in the future. BTW ~ I am not saying "corporations are evil". But it is a fact of economics that businesses will always take the route that brings them the most profit. If they can get away with paying a worker $5.00 a day, they will do it. This is why governments and international agreements are necessary balances to the free market.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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#11 |
Spaceman Spiff
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In the belly of a Firefly, living in Serenity is where you'll find me
Posts: 1,438
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Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door. Has America forgotten? This country would't be the great nation it is without the immagrants. We are all immagrants in a way. The Native Americans are the only ones who can say they are not. This is their land.
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Do you hear that? |
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#12 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 516
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In the end, however, I agree with you BJ, -- we should accept these immigrants as citizens. What I would be curious about is how many of them would register to vote, and how would that impact our government. It would be extremely interesting to see, imho. I don't think they would vote as a bloc, but I believe we might see certain issues debated with greater regularity.
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Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) |
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#13 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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From an outsiders POV, I agree with Tom & Doug. This can only lead to further alienation and exploitation, IMO.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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#14 | |||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,080
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I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
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#15 | |||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,080
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I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
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#16 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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You make very pursuasive arguments for total amnesty Brownie. I have to say I lean that way myself. I like that Canada's immigration laws aren't too restrictive, though they could use improvements I think.
What would someone say against total amnesty? Quote:
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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#17 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 516
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LOL... I won't shed any tears for anyone that needs to mow their own lawn, either, Nurvingiel. Of course, I loathe lawns anyway and figure that anyone who has one deserves to suffer.
![]() However, don't underestimate the spoiled and lazy individual who will shudder in horror at the thought of washing his/her own floors, or clipping his/her own hedges. Over the years I've been amused at the sensitive, delicate creatures I've run across that simply MUST have central air conditioning, and simply MUST have cable/satellite/whatever television, and simply MUST have the finest of wine with dinner. And of course we can't forget the clothing sprees with every change of season, and latest electronic gadget that's a must-have. The malls and shops are filled with people buying buying buying stuff they want, but don't need. As prices climb and it becomes harder to satisfy every whim, these people will feel what they think is real pain, I don't doubt it. And serves them right, too, as far as I'm concerned. It would do most people good to know REAL hunger for a short while, and REAL poverty, and REAL deprivation so that they learn the difference between satsifying their wants and providing for their needs.
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Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) Last edited by Hasty Ent : 03-30-2006 at 07:16 PM. |
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#18 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 19
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everyone seems to concentrate on the borders....
make immigration easier.....make hiring illegal immigrants as workers a federal offence (because, at the moment, farmers and industry owners are laughing all the way to the bank, dodging minimum wage laws by hiring illegal immigrants, hell, most private home owners too, who don't want to pay minimum wage for a gardener/maid etc).... you only have an immigrant problem because the US is the easiest option for them to make money, illegally...... hit the ones who are flaunting the system, not the ones who are desperate enough to risk punishment crossing a border, because they are that desperate to find work. |
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#19 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 516
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edit: I do have to mention, however, there have been cases of individuals contracting with agencies that were unscrupulous. They assumed the workers were documented and paid a good wage, meanwhile the agencies were taking advantage of the powerless. ![]()
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Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) Last edited by Hasty Ent : 04-01-2006 at 10:43 AM. |
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#20 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 19
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of course, it'll never happen....... you remove cheap labour from a country, and all that happens is that industry etc hitch up their skirts and move to where the cheap labour is, it's happened to a score of countries around the world (including the UK).....and i have no doubt the american govt is very aware of the economic implications of actually removing illegal immigrant workers from it's system...... sucks if you are an honest US citizen.... but, i guess that's the way it goes.
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