12-23-2005, 11:58 AM | #1 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Holocaust Denial
Quote:
This thread is designed to discuss Holocaust denial. What evidence is used to back Holocaust denial? Anti-semitism plainly is a major reason people do it, but if there are others, I'd be interested to hear about them. Here is the article about the Muslim Brotherhood's claim. The Iranian president claimed the same. Quote:
So as I said, tis thread is designed to discuss Holocaust denial. True or false. Extent of Holocaust denial feeling. People in modern times who deny the Holocaust. Reasons for that. As this is a "very ugly wave . . . sweeping the Arab world," I thought bringing up a thread about it might be pertinant to the modern situation. I know the issue gets, to some extent, into US foreign policy, and gets even more deeply into Israeli foreign policy. Those issues are important and very probably will have to be looked into. I hope we don't get into massive political tangents about whether the US and Israeli actions are right or wrong, in our opinions .
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
||
12-23-2005, 12:44 PM | #2 | ||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,080
|
I've been wondering about that too, what exactly do they have to gain by denying the holocaust? I don't think it really helps their anti-semitic agenda; and it makes them look a bit foolish in the process. The only thing I can figure is that the common people who support these guys believe everything they say, so they're trying to spread that view point. Even at that its hard for me to see how that would help them or benefit them.
what was your theory lief?
__________________
I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
Quote:
|
||
12-23-2005, 12:59 PM | #3 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|
12-23-2005, 01:24 PM | #4 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Its just another loony conspiracy theory that allows certain middle eastern countries (I dont really see the benefit of saying its some kind of distinctly "Muslim" notion Lief) to rationalize the concept that Jews created it as an excuse to found the state of Isreal after World War Two. And that this was propogated by the allies (US and Britian in particular) because they didnt want the jews in their countries necessarily AND they wanted a foot hold in the oil rich middle east. Paranoid nonsense obviously but good internal propoganda never the less as you say.
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
12-23-2005, 01:29 PM | #5 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Denying the Holocaust is, IMO, like living with blinkers on. It's a bit... pathetic to use it as a tool in the Middle-east conflicts. In Belgium, and I believe in neighbouring countries also, denying the Holocaust is a punishable offence.
__________________
We are not things. |
12-23-2005, 01:31 PM | #6 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|
12-23-2005, 01:33 PM | #7 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|
12-23-2005, 01:46 PM | #8 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Yeah, we've got some 'imfamous' Belgian guy constantly denying the Holocaust too. Germany wants him delivered up to be trialed there, last time I heard of him.
Personally I never really understood why it's a punishable offense here. I mean, you're a total loon if you vehemently stick to believing the Holocaust never happened, even with all the remaining evidence still in front of you: the camps, the footage, the pictures, Anne Frank's diary... And you probably deserve to be laughed at publically, but to be jailed over this? Meh, I don't know... People don't get jailed for stupidity in other cases.
__________________
We are not things. Last edited by Earniel : 12-23-2005 at 01:48 PM. |
12-23-2005, 02:31 PM | #9 |
of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150
|
According to my ex-boyfriend, who was a lieutenant in the IDF - an Israel soldier, that is - for the most part, Egyptians hate Israelis and Israel, and vice versa. So it's no shocking surprise that some fanatical a-holes from Egypt would want to stir up crap that just makes no logical sense, but tries to discredit in any way Israel and Jews in general. IMO, it's not even worth talking about. So what if some little crazy-group wants to go around shouting that the holocaust didn't happen? Only other total raving lunatic idiots would even pretend to agree that this is true. I can't believe this is even a topic of discussion. What's to discuss?
__________________
Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
12-23-2005, 02:58 PM | #10 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
||
12-23-2005, 03:10 PM | #11 |
of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150
|
BELIEFS? The holocaust happened, that is a truth. It's not whether to be believed or not believed, it is an enormous truth. And when such a truth as that is allowed to be DENIED, who's to say history couldn't repeat itself? AND YES, the islamic brotherhood is a CRAZY-GROUP, whether you want to think so or not. They can go party with the Taliban, and the Ku Klux Klan, and all the other crazy-groups.
__________________
Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
12-23-2005, 03:24 PM | #12 | ||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
I think you and I disagree on very little, on this issue, Lotesse.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
These groups aren't little, though. Many believe that they aren't even minorities in the Middle East, but majorities. Israel recently tried to refuse elections to take place amongst the Palestinians in Eastern Jerusalem, for fear that Hamas would win. Hamas recently made sweeping victories in elections in the West Bank. In Iran, Ahmadinejad led tens of thousands of people in protests, declaring that Israel must cease to exist. These are vast numbers, factions that either control countries or are rapidly gaining enough power to do so. This makes them an issue important enough to discuss and for the very reason you raised: that if such an important truth as the Holocaust is denied, history may repeat itself.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
||||
12-23-2005, 03:47 PM | #13 | |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: trondheim, norway
Posts: 1,388
|
Wow. Didn't know this was such a big thing. We have especially one guy denying holocaust here in Norway, but he is the leader of some new-nazi organization, very fond of vikings and the old ways. It's quite scary that so many people deny it, I think. I can see why, but nontheless, it's disturbing.
Quote:
__________________
Don't Panic! |
|
12-23-2005, 03:56 PM | #14 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Yep, that's true.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
12-23-2005, 07:22 PM | #15 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Quote:
I suppose the distance plays a role, the Holocaust happened here, the evidence is here. The moon landing happened much further away (and in a Holywood studio in America according to my late great-grandmother ). You can't go there and check.
__________________
We are not things. |
|
12-23-2005, 07:32 PM | #16 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|
12-27-2005, 10:56 AM | #17 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
it's human nature to believe what you want to believe, and it's far from exclusive to any one group of people... most muslims see the holocaust as a partial justification for the israeli state, something they have always opposed, so a denial is an understandable, though obviously erroneous, stance for them to take
read this article on the history a zionism for a glimpse behind the origins of some of these feelings
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
12-27-2005, 03:42 PM | #18 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|
12-27-2005, 03:49 PM | #19 |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
|
what is the point of this topic?
__________________
President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
12-27-2005, 03:53 PM | #20 |
of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150
|
That's pretty much what I have been DYING to ask. This thread really annoys the crap out of me; I don't know why but even seeing the title of it gets me super-annoyed.
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Muslims | Sween | General Messages | 992 | 04-11-2006 11:04 AM |
REAL debate thread for RELIGION | Ruinel | General Messages | 1439 | 04-01-2005 02:47 PM |
Holocaust Literature | Linaewen | General Literature | 11 | 07-28-2003 11:48 PM |
The Nuclear Holocaust has Started! | Coney | General Messages | 42 | 03-06-2003 07:32 AM |