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#1 |
Entmoot Secretary of the Treasury
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Campsite-by-Giraffe
Posts: 5,408
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![]() I checked for another thread on this, but all I could find was this thread.
Anyway, it says it all here. Let me know if it doesn't work or it only shows a picture. I was thinking about this some months ago when I read it, and I thought about some of the theories (well, I actually read only the part titled "Tom Bombadil Within Tolkein's Cosmology"). Especially the one: "Was Tom Bombadil Illuvatar Himself?" Though he said he was here before the dark lord came (something like that), and as the article states Morgoth was the first of the Valar or any of the powers in Arda, or Ea (how do you people put the accent marks and like symbols on specific letters, anyway?), it doesn't mean he was there before Morgoth came the first time, does it? Because if I remember right, in the first chapters of the Silmarillion, at some point he left. Couldn't that mean when he came and ambushed the Valar and Maia on whatever island they lived on in whatever lake, when he cast down the lamps? Or, could it possibly mean when he came back to Middle Earth after his imprisonment in Valinor? The last one I mentioned is least likely (to me) because he seemed more man than elf, and was rather short, while elves are known to be tall. Comments or theories welcome ![]()
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KI6PFA Amateur Radio Operator |
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#2 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Arthedian
Posts: 460
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The truth is no one will ever know the identity of Tom Bombadil except for J.R.R. Tolkien. There is only one thing I know for sure, and that is Tom Bombadil's concept came from a doll Tolkiens son had, Tolkien used to tell his son night time stories with the Bombadil doll and make silly rhyms like those in The Lord of the Rings. Other information that isn't known for absolute certainty can be that it is said I think that Ilúvatar never came nor sent any of his likenss into Arda. Finally there will be endless questions of Bombadil like who is the Dark Lord he is talking about, was it Sauron or Morgoth? Both Treebeard and Bombadil claim to be the oldest in Middle-Earth so who really is? Also Bombadil cliams to have come before the Eldar and before Atani. So he could not be Elf, Man, or Dwarf. One theory that has never really been discussed is that Tom is a liar. Perhaps Tom is just dilusional! He did not come before and is not oldest. Perhaps!? Yet we must know he must be something on a higher level of Maia, on level with the Vala or higher due to his resistance to the ring. It didn't effect him in any way and not even a Maia of Manwë, Olórin, could resist the ring! So in the end who, or what, is Tom Bombadil? No one but the late great J.R.R. Tolkien will ever know.*
*Note: Oh and Troll's Bane, there are several ways to create the symboled letters. One way is to use the character map in your programs. Go through Programs->Accesories->System Tools->Character Map.(Windows Only) Another way is to cut/copy and past the letters and words fom other places and websites.
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"Can you feel her, running through your veins? She will always live forever!" ~ Atreyu [Her portrait in Black] "I want to see pretty people doing ugly things..." ~ Unknown "Damn it n' such!" ~ Stewie Griffen Last edited by Halbarad of the Dunedain : 08-28-2004 at 06:29 PM. |
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#3 | |
Entmoot Secretary of the Treasury
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Campsite-by-Giraffe
Posts: 5,408
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![]() Well, you're probably right about us never knowing who or what Tom Bombadil is. I guess I left out the part where Tolkien said that Tom is an enigma and isn't meant to be understood.
Quote:
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#4 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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#5 |
Entmoot Secretary of the Treasury
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Campsite-by-Giraffe
Posts: 5,408
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![]() I agree!
Uh, Gaffer. While reaching for the post reply button, I accidentally hit the report bad post. I'll tell em if they PM you! Sorry.
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KI6PFA Amateur Radio Operator |
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#6 | |||
Elven Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 892
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![]() Treebeard never claimed to be the oldest living thing. Gandalf made that assertion:
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People make too much of Gandalf's remark. For example, Aragorn says: Quote:
Tolkien's characters employ the word "eldest" in many different ways. The narrative does as well (and nowhere in the narrative will you see any reference to either Treebeard or Bombadil as being older than the other or everything else). It is not necessary to reconcile the two claims of age because that is not the only apparent conflict in the story. For example, the Prologue concludes with: Quote:
Gandalf was a living thing -- he died, and something must first live before it can die. And yet, he was more ancient than either Bombadil or Treebeard. So, should he not have included himself in the category of living things? It is one to ask who and what Bombadil was but quite another to support the contention that there is any sort of contradiction between Gandalf's remarks about Treebeard and Bombadil's claims regarding himself. Neither Bombadil nor Gandalf is portrayed as all-knowing. |
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#7 |
Entmoot Secretary of the Treasury
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Campsite-by-Giraffe
Posts: 5,408
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![]() Wow. I think I still underestimate Entmoot. Every thread I start expecting just a few replies with almost no content always seem to end up with really smart posts!
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KI6PFA Amateur Radio Operator |
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#8 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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Yeah, Michael ought to come with a warning, "Thread-killer".
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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#9 | |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 856
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Quote:
But most certainly, Orloin in his Mithrandir'Gandalf form is far from omniscient. We even have his would when returned in his White form about having rmember much that he had forggoten, and forgotten much that he had known. Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 08-29-2004 at 12:19 AM. |
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#10 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Far Harad
Posts: 1,006
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Also when yiou say oldest from when are you talking. First created. First in Middle Earth? or what. That has to be answered before the oldest title can be given away. I always thought Bombadil was like the spirit of Middle Earth. Maybe nto even a cration of Eru but a creation of ME itself. But whatever.
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A Bit More Grown Up This Time... |
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#11 | |
Elven Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 892
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![]() Quote:
However, given that Ulmo appeared to Tuor as a giant made of seawater, the question of whether he could have been slain in that physical form is an interesting (and unanswerable) one. I think that, if Ulmo's watery raiment could have been dispersed against his will, then perhaps he would have died. Death only applies to the physical body. Hence, if a Vala or Maia assumes the body of an Elf and that body is destroyed, then the Vala/Maia dies. |
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#12 | |
King of Nargothrond
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada! eh?
Posts: 2,002
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Quote:
One theory I've heard is that Bombadil was a maia who "went native" so to speak...quite possibly of Yavanna's maiar judging by his nature fixation... The fact that he was not affected by the ring does not mean he was not a maia, because even Samwise Gamgee was able to resist... As was said at the council of Elrond, he would not have cared, which is why he would not have been affected. His worries were his domain, and Goldberry...the ring meant little to him.
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"THE EAGLES ARE COMING, THE EAGLES ARE COMING......AND A MOTH!!!!!" Last edited by Finrod Felagund : 10-17-2004 at 12:04 AM. |
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My new theory on Tom Bombadil | Elanor | Middle Earth | 74 | 08-31-2011 06:30 AM |
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