08-02-2004, 03:31 PM | #1 |
Elven Warrior
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Admin note - This discussion has gone in a completely different direction from the original thread, and we're talking about general demographic trends as opposed to the upcoming election. I've split the thread for this reason.
That's always fascinated me. Universities, and what you call 'colleges' (which I think are the same thing?), in which education is pursued at the highest level, which generally attracts the brightest and the best, has left wing leanings. These minds which have been exposed to so much of humanities history and experience, have come down on the left side of the fence. Interesting. While generally your average working class gun-totin' USAmerican who has had little to no formal education has right wing leanings. This would therefore lead one to assume that in America the educated seem to be inclined to choose the Democrats. How very interesting. I would like everyone to note, by the way, that I'm a Tory and thus support the equivalent of your Republican Party.
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Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought. Last edited by Ben : 08-02-2004 at 05:07 PM. Reason: split thread |
08-02-2004, 03:35 PM | #2 | |
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08-02-2004, 03:36 PM | #3 |
Elven Warrior
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Do you actually realise that I have a wife who is American by birth?
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08-02-2004, 03:40 PM | #4 | |
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08-02-2004, 03:43 PM | #5 |
Retired Ent
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Radagast is correct in his generalizations. The more education one has, the more likely one is to vote Democratic. Interestingly, the more money one has, the more likely one is to vote Republican. However, the more education one has, the more money someone is likely to make. I'm not entirely sure how to reconcile all of those ideas, but political science is fascinating .
Let's not devolve into personal attacks, but I just don't see any bigotry or even provocation in Radagast's post. He's even a conservative, just observing trends he sees overseas. Where is his error, let alone "bigotry"? Also, when I get around to it, I plan on responding to everything posted in this topic in the last couple days. Just a heads up (and a hope that you guys won't post 50 replies in the next day, making my work harder ) Edit - Another heads up: At some point, I'll remove all the replies that aren't on-topic (i.e., the personal sniping).
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08-02-2004, 03:43 PM | #6 |
Elven Warrior
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And that I also attended an American university for my postgraduate degree? I am merely combating the fact that you say I am ignorant of America. I am obviously not. It has become your standard benchmark response to call someone ignorant of the most copied nation in the world, a kneejerk reaction you give to evade the point.
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08-02-2004, 03:53 PM | #7 | |
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Republican vs democrat has more to do whether you want self-responsiblity or want a mommy state. I was poor growing up - but my parents were republican - because they wanted to enjoy the fruits of their hard earned money.
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08-02-2004, 03:58 PM | #8 | |
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As for being the most copied nation in the world - yeah we are - but that doesn't mean that people outside america know or understand anything about America just becuase they see our tv shows, or watch our movies. That is all superficial.
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08-02-2004, 04:00 PM | #9 | |
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I would say that people in the FIELD of education are more likely to vote Democratic. However, in fields like engineering (my field ), there are people that are HIGHLY educated, yet in general will vote Republican. Do you see what I mean?
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08-02-2004, 04:06 PM | #10 | |||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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08-02-2004, 04:07 PM | #11 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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08-02-2004, 04:14 PM | #12 |
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I don't know if Radagast intended offense (I'll assume not) but I think his generalizations were inadequate. As Rian said, the educated educators... and also others who are in other 'public service' jobs are often more liberal, while those in the private sector are often more conservative. Also, I've known LOTS of people with low education who vote Democrat. Some of them rely on public support... others are very strongly pro-labor union, which is often associated with the Democratic Party in our country (including lots of those gun-totin' working class folk).
Radagast, if you spent time at an American University, maybe it's just possible that this gave you a slightly skewed view of America as a whole. Americans, like other people, are complicated folks, and you'll find all sorts voting in each camp. Most figure out what is important to them (pro-business, pro-union, pro-choice, pro-life, etc, etc) and vote accordingly.
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08-02-2004, 04:27 PM | #13 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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As for your comment regarding people of many different beliefs and economic status voting for republican or democrat - that is similar to what I try to explain to Jonathan. We don't vote for the party - we vote for the person. The majority of Americans don't follow the party - we follow the candidates. I have my key issues I believe in and that is what I am basing how I will vote. I would probably have no problem voting for Lieberman - except that I don't think it would be good for Middle Eastern relations and the fight against terrorism. kerry does not support my key issues - therefore I will not be voting for him.
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08-02-2004, 04:39 PM | #14 | ||
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Here's some numbers: Exit Polls from 1996 Presidential Election, CNN Clinton won the post-graduate vote by 52% to 40%, while losing the $100k + vote by 38 to 54. Then take a look at the exit polls for 2000 Gore won the postgrad vote by 52% to 44% - an 8 point lead, compared to less than 1% nationwide. Again, the $100k-earners favored Bush by 54-43. That's exactly what I was talking about, and it's fascinating. I have not looked up stats about humanities college professors, but I do not believe that there are that many that they, by themselves, throw the category of post-graduate degree-holders to the Democrats. Sure, with 44% of post-grads voting Republican, you'll know some, but this demographic group is solidly Democratic as a whole, which is what I said. Maybe you are right about engineering professors or other professionals trending Republican, or perhaps they favor Democrats by smaller margins. This is something fascinating to look into, but it doesn't change the fact that my original assertion is correct. Rian and JD, please posts stats to back up your assertions about highly educated voters. If you can find a breakdown of post-graduate voters by profession, maybe you can prove your hypothesis. We can parse Radagast's statement, which is either partially true or completely true, depending on how you look at it. Quote:
So yes, taken together, your "average working class gun-totin'" citizen leans Republican, and if you interpret the phrase to be "average working class gun-totin" citizen, the group is solidly GOP. If you parse all the adjectives separately, he is correct about average, incorrect about working class, correct about "gun-totin'," and mixed about education.
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08-02-2004, 05:00 PM | #15 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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It doesn't mean your original assertion is necessarily correct though - there are several variables at work. We can equally say that the democratic party iis the party of "no-education" and "low wage earners" voters. I also feel there is more than having a post graduate degree as a sign of being educated. There is EXPANDING your education OUTSIDE the classroom also. Postgraudate just means they spent most of their time in a classroom - and very little actually experiencing life. Quote:
I find it VERY insulting for you and for him to say the republican party is made up of uneducated voters. For one thing - it doesn't take into account the amount of additional education many employees go through to get to that 100,000k amount. It's not necessarily post-graduate - but they are equally and in some cases more educated. Education doesn't stop at the classroom or include only the classroom. Quote:
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08-02-2004, 05:00 PM | #16 | |
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Actually, I'm not at all fluent with looking up statistics like these on the internet... plus, I have a natural aversion / distrust of numbers of those sorts (in general)... because I know how subtle shades of wording in a poll can widely affect the outcome of a poll.
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08-02-2004, 05:07 PM | #17 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 08-02-2004 at 05:09 PM. |
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08-02-2004, 05:46 PM | #18 |
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i think some of the tendencies go to the heart of the belief systems... educational intellectuals are encouraged to question everything... which is more akin to 'liberal' beliefs
conservatives tend to idealize the past and put certain things such as the constitution and basic moral values beyond question... so they are more likely to stay away from universities and other areas that debate these very core issues this is not to say that either is 'smarter'... more that your station in life tends to reflect the beliefs you hold
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08-02-2004, 06:22 PM | #19 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Actually - according toNational Election Studies - Republicans are the more educated party according to the 2002 results. They combine College/Post-Graduate results.
[edit about National Election Studies] The mission of the National Election Studies (NES) is to produce high quality data on voting, public opinion, and political participation that serve the research needs of social scientists, teachers, students, policy makers and journalists concerned with the theoretical and empirical foundations of mass politics in a democratic society. Quote:
I think this blows your hypothesis out of the water Ben and Radagast that democrats is the party of more educated voters. Another great site is Vote Smart which I use.
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08-02-2004, 06:28 PM | #20 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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As for the Constitution - it is the the foundation of our government - it is our government. Unlike in Europe and Israel where the PM and his party is called "The Governemt" - the president is not the government here. The Constitution of the United States is what protects our rights as citizens and is what protects the states from the encroachment of the federal government.
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