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11-12-2001, 06:41 PM | #121 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2001
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While carbon14 dating could be inaccurate because of the flood, they usually use Uranium- Thorium dating, which would not have been messed up because of the Flood.
For some solid evidence of the flood, afro-elf, read the May 2001 issue of National Geographic (an evolutionary magazine). It has an article about an expedition in the Black Sea by Robert ballard, discoverer of the Titanic.
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The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. |
11-12-2001, 06:51 PM | #122 |
Hoplite Nomad
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Darth you never got back to me on this
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In OT times when you died you went to hell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- where in the bible does it say that? Just because it was a different time you condone Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!" Psalms 137:9 . DT3:6 And we utterly destroyed them... utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-12-2001, 06:58 PM | #123 |
Hoplite Nomad
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Fin
i'm aware of mr.ballard Evidence of *A* great flood,( not a universal flood) perhaps caused by melting glaciers bursting through the Bosporus straight some 7,000 years ago, has been discovered off the coast of Turkey by Robert Ballard (who found the remains of the Titanic) on a total side note i've been to turkey twice the bosporus is quite nice The Biblical flood is due to rain, not a bursting dam. As archeological anthropologist John Alden notes ...the story in the Bible is clear -- it rained for weeks before Noah's flood, and after it stopped raining the floodwaters receded. The Black Sea flood wasn't caused by rain, and after the water rose it never went away. And neither [the Sumerian nor the Biblical] story mentions the most dramatic consequence of the Black Sea flood, which turned fresh water into salt. Noah's flood, in short, doesn't sound anything like the inundation of the Black Sea. do not forget about the other problems that i listed
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-12-2001, 07:03 PM | #124 |
Hoplite Nomad
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Mathron
give me about a week hopefully sooner to get back to you on the problem of induction ramadan is starting and it places the class schedule in a complete disarray changes the time frame to prepare the kids of exams
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-12-2001, 07:49 PM | #125 |
Hobbit-Huorn
RPG Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000
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No problem - take your time.
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Through Truth, Power. |
11-12-2001, 08:13 PM | #126 |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
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I keep finding myself in this debate yet I really shouldn't be since I'm an admin. Anyways, In OT times only 2 (or was it three, can't remember) ppl went to heaven, which was closed to man till Jesus reopened it By taking on our sins.
You're explanasion of the tree is silly. It would have totally dissintigrated in the thousands of years that scientists say it took for the layers to build up. There is no way they could have built up around it unless it was an instanious thing |
11-12-2001, 09:19 PM | #127 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lothlorien
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Oops, my mistake, I was looking at Psalms 136, 137 does indeed say that, but you must understand that is in not god saying go bash your babys against rocks, This psalm is David telling about what he felt when he was beside the rivers of Babylon as a prisoner thinking of Jerusalem. David was pouring out his fealings before God, his anger towards his captors and his craving for revenge. It is obevious that God does not want christians to go aroung killing babys, for he says thou shalt not kill. You took the time to look up all the translations in all the different bibles Afro-elf, did you not read the whole psalm?
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"When evil people come to destroy me, when my enemies and foes attack me, they will stumble and fall. Though a mighty army surrounds me, my heart will know no fear." -Psalms 27:2-3 -Dare you venture into Gollum's Lair? JESUS LIVES! |
11-13-2001, 12:16 PM | #128 | ||
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Darth
not so where do you find fossiled things? In the ground buried surrounded by layers of earth. I"VE found fossiled remains of wood on the surface there have been finds of shifts where remains of different times have been together darth wrote: In OT times only 2 (or was it three, can't remember) ppl went to heaven, which was closed to man till Jesus reopened it By taking on our sins. But you said that people went to hell. not going to heaven doesn't mean going to hell. i believe the Jews the people who the OT was about , thought you went to Sheol. not sure on the spelling. and i would like more info on this sakata Quote:
you place upon me words i never said: I NEVER said GOD said do that i made that post about psalm 137:9 several times one was to show the problems of taking things literally or out of context the other was asking darth about his condoning of certain actions even with him being angered isnt dashing little ones against the rocks a TAD extreme? as far as god not wanting to kill Quote:
And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. NUM 21:34 And the LORD said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land; and thou shalt do to him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. 21:35 So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land. NUM 25:16 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 25:17 Vex the Midianites, and smite them: DT 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them Kill any prophets or "dreamers of dreams" if they say or dream the wrong things. Dt.13:1-5 Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Dt.13:6-10 Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Dt.13:12-16 Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Dt.17:2-7 Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Dt.17:12-13 Kill any false prophets. Dt.18:20 Kill all the men and boys in the cities that God "delivers into your hands," but keep the women for yourself. Dt.20:13-15 Kill everything that breathes in the cities that God gives you for an inheritance. Dt.20:16 Kill rebellious or disobedient sons. Dt.21:18-21 Women, be sure to keep the tokens of your virginity. Otherwise the men of your city may stone you to death. Dt.22:13-21 Kill adulterers. Dt.22:22 Kill rape victims if they fail to cry out loud enough. Dt.22:23-34 did god command these things?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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11-13-2001, 12:26 PM | #129 |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 4,572
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I've already addressed "Thou shalt not murder." Sheol = hell. For more info on the scientific stuff (i'm no expert) I recommend "Genesis, Creation, and Early Man." Never actually read the whole book myself, it's a bit deep for me, but I've spoken with the editor/compiler/occasional author who put it together. He's a brilliant monk and at least in speech can put things in simple terms. It's published by the St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood
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11-13-2001, 12:40 PM | #130 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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I'll see if I can dig up some info on the book you mentioned. But being stuck in the desert it may take awhile
as far as murder not necessarily meaning killing fine but the things I just listed seem murderous to me at least.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-13-2001, 10:14 PM | #131 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Farthest Khand, the darkest East...
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Whoaaaaa...... what do you mean, in Old Testament times, everyone went to hell? What's the point of all those prophets then? Why all those laws? Why follow any commandment if you're going to Hell anyway?
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11-13-2001, 11:01 PM | #132 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: a castle made of clouds
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A good Jew doesn't follow the laws because they don't want to go to hell. They do it because they're supposed to, and it's the right thing to do, and following God's law makes their life overall better. Of course, no one's that virtuous, but it's a nice ideal to aspire to.
The Old Testament hardly ever mentions hell. Instead, you atoned for your sins. Biblical Jews atoned for their sins in various ways, but generally atonement meant sacrificing an animal on an altar. Occasionally you would simply pay money or barter for it, for instance if you accidentally killed one of your neighbor's sheep. For the more serious crimes, you sacrificed your own life. So, if you think about it, even a murderer who gave his own life willingly might have a chance at getting into heaven, since he'd atoned. (I could get into a spiel about how this relates to Christianity, but I'll spare you all for now. It's late. I'm tired.) In a nutshell, no, Old Testament people did not go to hell according to the Jews of that time, as long as you were faithful to God and the Jewish religion. I'm not quite sure what the criteria is nowadays, since there's no more sacrificing and Jewish ideas about the afterlife are varied, due to time and coloring by more recent Jewish folklore and tradition. I think it's still basically the same: good religious people go to heaven, bad people don't.
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Human kind cannot bear very much reality. dreamflower - for all things Lady Galadriel |
11-13-2001, 11:48 PM | #133 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lothlorien
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Quote:
As for all the rest of your quotes, It might take me a while to get back to you, I am in my Junior year of high school and I have 2 research papers due, along with studying for the PSAT *sigh* I could debate (that is what we're doing right?) religon all night, but i'll have to take a rain-check
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"When evil people come to destroy me, when my enemies and foes attack me, they will stumble and fall. Though a mighty army surrounds me, my heart will know no fear." -Psalms 27:2-3 -Dare you venture into Gollum's Lair? JESUS LIVES! |
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11-14-2001, 05:09 AM | #134 | ||
Hoplite Nomad
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Sakata
Quote:
Quote:
yes this a debate good luck on your tests and I await your return
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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11-14-2001, 01:31 PM | #135 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 47
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And while we're awaiting her (his?) return we can pour over this:
http://stardestroyer.net/Creationism...errorism.shtml Please don't flame me, but I know it's a pretty contentious piece, so if you have to, I will understand |
11-14-2001, 02:38 PM | #136 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa
Posts: 327
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As to how people got to heaven in OT times...
They had to trust that God would send a Messiah. They sacrificed animals to atone for their sins. When Jesus dies, he was the sacrifice for all who accepted him as their savior. As to when God told the Israelites to kill people... Most of those verses you quoted were about killing the enemies they had defeated. If they had not killed them, their descendants would have uprisen against Israel later. Also, they would have intermarried with the Jews and introduced their religions to them. It was not like they were innocent. Their religion included such things as child sacrifice, prostitution, etc.
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The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. |
11-14-2001, 03:46 PM | #137 |
Hobbit-Huorn
RPG Moderator Join Date: Jul 2000
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Again, that was not the point. Should we kill all of our enemies, all who might potentially be our enemies, and all of their women and children?
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Through Truth, Power. |
11-14-2001, 05:00 PM | #138 | |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
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what would happen if america had went in an just tactically nuked afghanstan or iran 10 tens ago
think of all the uproar about killing the woman and children what would happen if the respone was an answer like you gave Quote:
have you looked at the historical evidence for this? BUT lo and behold did god just say thou shall not kill?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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11-14-2001, 07:10 PM | #139 |
t2t relic
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 531
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First off, theres no reason to nuke afganistan, the taliban basically doesn't exist there anymore (or won't for much longer at this rate..). If one of us did decide to nuke the other, itd turn out like the cuban missile crisis in the 60s.. he with the biggest balls and best poker face will win.
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"And the Lord spoke, "Send me your money, Empty thine wallets into my pockets my pockets, the pockets of Ryan, Ryan, he who will deliver the money unto me. Then you will truley be happy." And the people followed, and all was well." --Ryan 62:33 |
11-15-2001, 12:27 AM | #140 | ||
Hoplite Nomad
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Quote:
the point is about killing innocent people finmandos said Quote:
well lets GO GET UM BOYS. better kill all the filthy afgans before they grow up and kill us come on hum sounds like genocide are you at all revolted by the nazi treatment of jews or there treatment of anyone they conquered or the isreali treatment of palestinians or america's prior history of native americans and slaves of stalins starvation of ukraine the armenian cleansing in turkey the ethinc cleansing in the balkans
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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