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06-20-2003, 12:55 AM | #1181 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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06-20-2003, 12:57 AM | #1182 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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06-20-2003, 01:00 AM | #1183 |
Lord of the Pants
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,382
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Science is not perfect. The fact of the matter is that atheist/agnostic scientists can have just as much of an agenda as religious scientists. I guess I'm pretty cynical, but the reality is that science is driven by agendas, and if you don't believe me, go on down and visit your local uni, and witness the petty rivalry between the researchers, professors, etc. We all have agendas - to presume that religion is the only one is somewhat erroneous.
Last edited by Sheeana : 06-20-2003 at 01:01 AM. |
06-20-2003, 01:08 AM | #1184 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
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I don't deny that Shee-Bop,
However, the FACT that when I flip the switch my lights come on is independent to of my belief.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 06-20-2003 at 01:44 AM. |
06-20-2003, 02:01 AM | #1185 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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As Hobbit said - religious schools here teach evolution. I went to three Catholic schools - all of them taught evolution.
And yes - New Jersey, as well as the northeast, is more enlightened than the southern, midwestern and prairie states. GW- I am glad that you have seen that the world is a lot more. I am surprised you didn't know about Wicca though As for atheists leaving their beliefs at the door - all scientists should leave their beliefs at the door. But as I said - god and the belief has nothing to do with science. You can not say that someone must have created the world because you don't understand how it is possible without a supernatural being. Intelligent Design is just evolution with a supernatural being thrown in to satisfy the creationists and try getting it taught in school. I haven't read anything here that would indicate otherwise.
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06-20-2003, 02:08 AM | #1186 | |||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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06-20-2003, 02:57 AM | #1187 |
Hoplite Nomad
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oops edit
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-20-2003, 10:16 AM | #1188 | |
Elf Lord
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He's also right that all scientists ahould leave their religious convictions or lack thereof at the laboratory door; many scientists have religious faith, many don't. As for the "some biologists believe in evolution, some in creation" it's the equivalent of saying some biologists believe infectious diseases are caused by bacteria and viruses, while others believe they are caused by evil spirits. What's the proportion? And of course, while the majority is not always right, neither are the minorities. Just because Galileo was attacked, doesn't mean everyone who's attacked is Galileo.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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06-20-2003, 11:51 AM | #1189 | |
Hoplite Nomad
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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06-20-2003, 12:41 PM | #1190 |
Alasailon
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: college
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So should we teach both evolution and creationism and let the pupil decide what is more to their liking? That sounds the fairest. Or is it the school's responsibility to only teach evolution and let the students learn creationism through strictly religious interactions?
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06-20-2003, 12:46 PM | #1191 | |||
Elf Lord
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Yes Arch. has fully-formed feathers (shouldn't that be scale-to-feather transitions? Discoveries in the last few years show that feathers originated before flight, though the feathers on non-flying dinosaurs were symmetrical, unlike flight feathers. The wings of ARCH. were not fully functional wings ( compared to modern birds) And the claws on ostriches and others ( the Hoatzoan ) are neotonous i.e. juvenile features carried into adulthood by slowed development Quote:
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As far as evolutionist PhDs vs. Creationist PhDs, the difference is that the evolutionist Phds are in the fields that are in question (i.e. avian morphology, paleontology, etc) while the creationists are in other fields entirely. It may be unfair, but the people searching for, analysing and comparing the actual fossils are evolutionists, just like the people scanning the heavens are believers in the Big Bang- that's their job. quotes are from Talkorigins; Archeopteryx, but a Google search will find many more.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 06-20-2003 at 12:49 PM. |
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06-20-2003, 01:13 PM | #1192 | ||
Elf Lord
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Talkorigins: horse, evolution of
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 06-20-2003 at 01:14 PM. |
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06-20-2003, 01:22 PM | #1193 | |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
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It sounds fair but it is rediculous. You do get that creation is only a belief and not a scientific theory, right? And also, public schools could not even teach creation because of seaparation of church and state. It is the school's responsibility NOT to teach creation. Evolution is in the ciriculum of many science courses, and history courses (social darwinism), and english (we read "Inherit the Wind" this year, the play based on the Scopes or "Monkey Trial" Just because you believe it does not make it true OR a scientific theory. You could say the same to me - but evolution is a scientific theory.... *sigh* It is a scientific FACT that evolution exists. Do you guys know what a scientific fact is? AFro-Elf gave us all a very nice definition of it, and he is correct. Hmm since Creation is completely based in religion, of course it is his/her parent's concern how much they want to teach their kid - through church/temple or/and religious school (after school and/or on weekends if not private school) Anglorfin, how is this even an issue? Creation being taught in science classes is just so laughable it isn't even funny. Especially in this area of the US, can you imagine the lawsuits and the HUGE amount of kids switching to being homeschooled or private schools? It would be completely unconstitutional.
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President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
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06-20-2003, 01:26 PM | #1194 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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06-20-2003, 01:39 PM | #1195 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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06-20-2003, 01:42 PM | #1196 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Obviously, you should teach that people fall because little faerie pull them to the ground, and that everything is made up of tiny legos!
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
06-20-2003, 01:43 PM | #1197 | |
Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
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President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
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06-20-2003, 01:52 PM | #1198 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Whether you like it or not - science supports evolution - it does not give any evidence or proof to creationism (except people's belief). People can go to Sunday school to learn about creationism. Creationism doesn't belong in public schools - because it relies on a god and god is a belief. Would you be willing to only have Indian (Native American) creationist story? Why don't we teach the creationist story as it appears in Watership Down while we're at it - that's "Intelligent Design" in there.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-20-2003 at 01:53 PM. |
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06-20-2003, 01:57 PM | #1199 | |
Elf Lord
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For increasing complexity in the fossil record;
Archaean : The first few billion years, simple one-celled organisms without a nucleus, the prokaryotic cells. Protoerozoic: Next stage, appearances of eukaryotic one-celled organisms possessing nuclei. Ediacarian (670 million years ago [mya] ) ; first multi-celled animals Quote:
The life-forms from this period range from sponges, coelenterates, flatworms, roundworms to (maybe) molluscs and arthropods. Then with the Cambrian comes the trilobites, brachiopods etc. But- no chordates , much less vertebrates; no life on land. So, yes, the fossil record has a well-established gradation from simple to more complex. Again, the YEC fossil record should show no sorting by age- there shouldn't be a recognisable "Cambrian system" or "trilobite age/zone" It should be impossible to take a fossil such as a trilobite and say that this came from a lower level of rock than a fish or a dinosaur or a mammoth. The geologic column shouldn't exist- and yet it was discovered by avowed creationists decades before Darwin.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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06-20-2003, 02:11 PM | #1200 | ||||||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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maybe I'm not the intolerant "Christianity-is-the-only-belief-that-should-be-taught" bastard you thought
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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