![]() |
![]() |
#101 | ||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Quote:
![]() Quote:
__________________
We are not things. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#102 |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
|
i believe that if someone has a poor quality of life due to illness or suchlike, they should have the option to remove themselves from this life, and move on to their next incarnation, if that is what they so desire. IE: If my health problems were to degenerate, and paralysis or such like were to inset, I should have such opportunity to pass through.
Basically, I believe that everyone has a choice to make over what happens throughout their life and all Karmic consequences they then have to take along with that; You reap what you sow. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#103 |
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Narnia
Posts: 1,656
|
I am totally against "death with dignity" or human euthanasia. I believe many people (esp. pro-euthanasia) think they are entitled to a pain/suffering-free life ("pursuit of happiness). They think that all pain/suffering is a bad thing to be avoided at all costs, including death. Just because they may be a burden to society, or they think they are a burden to others, they can't purposely kill themselves, or have someone else help them. The dying should be allowed to die (for example, refuse complicated treatment), however the living should not be allowed to die. Doesn't human life have any sanctity? No matter what its condition?
Here's an article. I always seem to grab articles, don't I? http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/...mentation.html
__________________
Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#104 |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
|
if you had total paralysis, and were simply a burden, would you truly wish to go on?
i simply can not believe that anyone who has lost all purpose can continue to want to just exist |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#105 | |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
|
Quote:
maybe i'm just weird??!! ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#106 | |
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Narnia
Posts: 1,656
|
Quote:
There has been testimony (much) from people in terrible pain on the brink of death who still did not want to die. No matter how much pain/suffering it was.
__________________
Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#107 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: lurking on the edge of conversations
Posts: 924
|
I have slightly conflicting opinions on the euthanasia debate. On the whole I believe that euthanasia should be allowed, but there are obviously any number of problems that would arrise if it were too easy of an option. People suffering extreme pain might "wish to die" while the pain occurs, but that does not mean that that momentary desire should always be abided by. There are plenty of instances where people in immense amounts of pain, even for long periods, will suddenly, through treatment or the advent of a new drug or something like that, be healed and go on to lead healthy, dynamic lives. For example, since I'm reading Awakenings by Oliver Sacks currently, post-encephalitic Parkinson's patients who have been catatonic or have severe compulsions and crippling muscular problems were concidered hopeless cases for up to 30 years. After 30 years, however, the drug l-dopa was discovered which, for some, could return them to almost normal life. If euthanasia had been an option during those 30 years, how many 'hopeless' and 'terminal' patients might have elected for it? How could they know, or be expected to know, that the 'hopelessness' of their situation was an illusion? And, how can you measure whether the gained years after the discovery of the drug would be 'worth' the wait for it, or if the patient would have 'regreted' (term used loosely, they couldn't really regret the euthanasia because they'd be dead) euthanising if they'd known what was in the future? Other questions raised (I'm a psychology major, so I apologise for focusing on psychoses) would involve what the 'self' is: could a person with schizophrenia be allowed to make the decision to euthanize? At least with the issue of psychotic disorders (which could probably be fairly safely expanded to cases of extreme pain), we would have to have a much better understanding of what constitutes the self, and how to distinguish requests made under the influence of something other than the person's direct will (i.e. pain, psychoses, certain medications, etc.), a sidtinction which would, at the least, be difficult to write into a law. In general, though, I believe that having the option to euthanise is good, but the process involved should be long enough and serious enough that the decision cannot be made suddenly or unthinkingly.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#108 | |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
|
Quote:
__________________
We are not things. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#109 | |
Spammer of the Happy Thread
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 3,512
|
Quote:
__________________
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. " - C. Sagan My (photography) website My Flickr page |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#110 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
Yesterday, we transported two women, both 86. They both had dementia and were in terrible shape.
One was screaming if you don't want me why don't you kill me. The other was had a fever of 105. Her core temp was hot but her extremities were cold. Her dialysis shunt would not stop bleeding. Plus tons of other problems. I held manual compression for an hour. I am watching this lady on the last leg of life. I thought she was going to die on me. I walked through several nursing homes yesterday. It was so heart breaking to see people in such conditions. We put humans down for humane reasons though we can't do it for humans. Just a venting of the day. AE
__________________
About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#111 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Victor Frankl authored MAN'S SEARCH FOR MEANING chronicling his observations of the nature of survival in the concentration camp. Very interesting insights into survivability and purpose.
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#112 | ||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
*AWKWARD* Yes... By the way, Menelvagor, paragraphs are your friend. ![]() Hey, welcome back Mercutio! Quote:
There was an interesting article in the Vancouver Courier where euthanasia was mentioned. The person being interviewed said that [paraphrase] he didn't agree with euthanasia because it is the worst kind of discrimination. An old, sick person is allowed to die, but a young healthy person who wants to die gets suicide prevention treatment. I agree with him that discrimination, especially in this case, should be avoided at all costs. However, what about the young, sick person? I think that anyone who is terrible, incurable pain should be allowed to die if they have expressed the wish legally, such as in a living will. (It's also possible to make a living will while you are sick. Also, I believe you can authorise people to do it for you, which is a legal decision as well.) By legal, I mean you can't be coerced into it, and you have to be aware of what you're doing. (Plus you have to be old enough, and other stipulations.) This can get very complicated, but that's generally what I think.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#113 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Thread bump, nurv.
![]()
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#114 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
|
Nurv, I connected concentration camps with survivors and purpose in the matter of survival. That connection is in regard to euthanasia - what prompts persons to survive against all odds and in incredibly horrendous physical conditions. SOYLENT GREEN, on the other hand, makes more of the awkward connection I think you thought I made. EUTHANASIA is active termination of on-going life for some higher purpose alleged by the proponents. It is not equal to refusal of care by the patient.
Active interference is open to abuse (cf. MONTY PYTHON and the HOLY GRAIL........"Bring out your dead!" ... "I ain't dead yet!" ... "Yes, you are.").
__________________
Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#115 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
I feel happy...I feel happy...I feel *thud*
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#116 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
Nice bump Afro-elf! Even though you had a lousy day at work. ![]() Inked - thanks, I understand what you mean now and am no longer disturbed. ![]()
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#117 | |
Possessive Villain Fancier
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: On my ship, riding the waves YARR!
Posts: 2,008
|
Quote:
![]()
__________________
My soul is painted like the wings of butterflies, Fairytales of yesterday will grow but never die, I can fly - my friends. XK |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#118 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
That makes sense. I read it the other way, too. Which resulted in much head-scratching.
![]()
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#119 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
I would say that euthanasia isn't to end any pain and suffering, but to end pain and suffering that someone finds unbearable, and that has cannot be alleviated.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#120 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
DNR vs. Selective Euthanasia | MrBishop | General Messages | 6 | 04-18-2005 02:14 PM |
Evil in Middle-Earth | Telcontar_Dunedain | Middle Earth | 295 | 04-16-2005 11:23 AM |