01-26-2005, 01:48 PM | #81 |
avocatus diaboli
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It could be a very small hoard of treasure.
grr... I hate the 90 second rule...
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01-26-2005, 01:50 PM | #82 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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No treasure hoard is that small.
Argh. 90 second rule.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
01-26-2005, 01:54 PM | #83 |
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I beg to differ.
Just because it cannot be seen by the naked eye doesn't mean it does not exist. You said the Rohirrim bought it from him? I wonder what our delightful earthworm managed to earn from that endeavour...
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01-26-2005, 01:58 PM | #84 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Well Scatha was slain by one of the Kings of Rohan (I think, i o not have the books handy at the moment to check) and he brought treasures from his hoard bac to Rohan.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
01-26-2005, 02:01 PM | #85 |
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You left out the R before. Careful there. Now we have earthworm salesmen running around Middle Earth.
J'ai besoin d'aller...
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01-26-2005, 02:06 PM | #86 | |
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01-26-2005, 02:09 PM | #87 | |
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It was Frumgar's son, Fram, who slew Scatha - who I'm certain was indeed a dragon. Fram made a necklace of his teeth and offered it to the dwarves instead of their treasure they wanted back (they got ticked and killed him) - so I guess Scatha was one of those dragons who plundered a dwarvish treasury. It wasn't until about 500 years later, 2510, IIRC, that Fram's distant descendant Eorl led the Eotheod south to rescue the forces of Gondor - and stuck around at the invitation of Cirion the Steward, settling in Calenardhon. They had about 500 years to squander whatever treasure that Fram got from Scatha - or to squabble over it... unless the Dwarves managed to take some back once they made the hit on Fram.
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01-26-2005, 04:57 PM | #88 |
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Can't they just call them wyrms, when they are similar to dragons? I always imgaine worms, and that is...scary.
and the 90 second rule is out
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01-26-2005, 05:09 PM | #89 |
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Wyrm is the older spelling of worm.
And in the middle ages, dragons were thought to be creatures of the deep earth, related to worms. Of course, they also thought snakes were a type of worm. You can see the progression... Stick some wings on a snake (a symbol of evil from ancient times) maybe some legs (not all of them had legs) add a little hellfire and brimstone, and viola, the devil's own Wyrm... A dragon.
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01-26-2005, 05:12 PM | #90 |
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That's what threw me. Worms, instead of wyrms. Thanks for the info on the Rohirrim, Val. All that is your department, definitely not mine.
Blackheart, it's somewhat strange that the snake is a symbol of evil in Christian theology... If you were to look at some of the Eastern religions, they're anything but. I still love dragons.
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01-26-2005, 05:13 PM | #91 |
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Yes. Thank you for the explantion
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01-26-2005, 05:21 PM | #92 | |
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In the west the earth is the abode of the devil. Especially in the post christian era. It's not hard to see how the split occured. [snakes=dragons for most mystic purposes, only a difference in degree not type]
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01-26-2005, 05:22 PM | #93 |
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Most of it (esp the part on Fram & Scatha - which is only there, IIRC) is in Appendix A. But there's also some really cool stuff in the story 'Cirion and Eorl' in 'Unfinished Tales'. It doesn't just start with Eorl leading his people to fight for Gondor - it goes way back and tells about the relationship between their peoples for the previous hundreds of years, for the Rohirrim came from the Northmen of Rhovanion - but through many twists and turns and maybe 1300 years. It's interesting stuff. That story also gives the account of the death of King Ondoher and his sons; Artamir and Faramir (father & brothers of Firiel ).
'Rohan' was the name Gondor used for them - and they only began to call their kingdom that after they settled Calenardhon. In the north, UT gives the precise information, but IIRC, they had one main city located where two rivers join together at the head of Anduin.
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01-26-2005, 05:27 PM | #94 | ||
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01-27-2005, 12:12 AM | #95 |
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Post Christian as in after the establishment of the catholic church.
Before that the "devil" wasn't actually envisioned so much as a central figure of evil.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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