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04-06-2003, 11:12 PM | #1 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
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04-06-2003, 11:13 PM | #2 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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IR, that is your opinion, perhaps. I believe strongly that free-will is a truth. I also believe that Good and Evil are absolutes: BUT I believe that they do not apply to animals, or that they apply to animals in a different way. I. E. Those animals that just roam around killing for no reason whatsoever (not even territory, just drifters) would be "evil" animals, IMO. But I don't believe that animals have free will, so those which are evil cannot help it. But as I believe that Mankind is created separate from animals (which, naturally, as an agnostic, you do not believe), I believe that Man is separate from animals in such matters.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-06-2003, 11:16 PM | #3 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-06-2003, 11:19 PM | #4 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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04-06-2003, 11:25 PM | #5 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
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04-06-2003, 11:26 PM | #6 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Yes, I'm not too sure of that. While their have been records of animals like the ones I was talking about, they're quite rare. I'm not really sure about the evil animals. On the one hand, I believe that killing for reason at all is wrong, period. On the other hand, such animals are unconscious of their actions, and are incapable of actually being good. I think probably it would have been better to say that some animals act in manners which are evil. But we seem to disagree on Good and Evil being a man-made concept, or originating from something higher.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
04-06-2003, 11:31 PM | #7 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Not so sure I agree with the notion of animals being evil if they kill. I mean, is this not instinctive, and usually for survival purposes with them? They are not capable of reasoning, like people.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
04-06-2003, 11:34 PM | #8 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Depends, depends, depends...
Have I mentioned it Depends? Has anyone offered a definition of good and evil yet? I'd like to know before I start arguing about whether or not animals fit the bill of either.
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04-06-2003, 11:37 PM | #9 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Yes, for survival purposes I agree with you. But there have been cases of animals which killed for no determinable reason; not food, not territory, not rivalry, etc. What you said them not reasoning is basically what I said in my last post: while the action of doing such things is wrong, the animals themselves are not really, as the only reason they do it is because of genetic defects, I presume; as animals do not reason, unlike humans, they have absolutely no way of fighting such defects.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
04-06-2003, 11:42 PM | #10 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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04-06-2003, 11:49 PM | #11 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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I agree with you, IR.
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I know this may seem narrow-minded, but I believe that God is Good, and Satan is Evil. I believe that if something of God seems Evil or Wrong, then that is a flaw in my own perception of things. Yeah, I'm dumb.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-07-2003, 12:26 AM | #12 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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But I'm not posting clearly today 'cause I'm not feeling well
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-07-2003, 12:28 AM | #13 |
The Insufferable
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Was I wrong to ask for a definition?
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
04-07-2003, 12:32 AM | #14 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-07-2003, 12:34 AM | #15 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Do you want to provide one for us? I would like to see your def.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-07-2003, 12:41 AM | #16 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Yes, circumstances can make those tendencies harder to fight and resist - that's why the Bible says to 'flee from temptation'. IOW, if you tend to gossip, then you might need to just politely excuse yourself from a conversation that is starting to get into hurtful gossip, until you are strong enough to successfully resist it.(and for the umteenth time , I'm arguing from the Biblical position because that's what I, personally, believe to be the correct worldview- I know most of you guys don't believe it, tho, but that doesn't matter - you can present your arguments from your particular world-view, which makes sense to YOU.)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-07-2003, 12:49 AM | #17 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-07-2003, 12:57 AM | #18 |
The Insufferable
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Eh? Oh, yeah. Sorry.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
04-07-2003, 01:08 AM | #19 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Just a joke, dunwarry aboutit!
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
04-07-2003, 01:45 AM | #20 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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Sorry I missed so much of the discussion; my computer wouldn't connect to the Internet.
Quote:
If I might copy RÃ*an and use the Bible as a reference, though I doubt that this particular passage is one that anyone would at all disagree with. Jesus said that the one who does an evil act with knowledge of what he is doing should be beaten with many blows, while the one who does that act without the knowledge will be beaten with few blows. So basically, the evil that the perpetrator commits is more forgiveable if they didn't know what they were doing. If someone in the Middle East has been brought up in a program to hate Americans, I'd be more ready to forgive them for bombing a U.S. Embassy than I'd be willing to forgive someone who grew up in America. What was done is just as evil no matter who does it, but the evil that the individual who committed it is guilty of can alter. |
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