Gays, lesbians, bisexuals

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by inked

I disagree. On BJ's lights, I'm just as correct as he is. He cannot demur.

i completely agree... you are just as "right" as i am, but hopefully i can make you consider the other sides a bit more deeply... i know you do that for me

[Spock]

Originally Posted by inked

Ahh, BJ and the moral relativism of life. I keep trying to point out that if his position is consistently maintained, there is not recourse for the outvoted and outpowered to whine when the majority does to them as it will.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by inked

On BJ's lights, I'm just as correct as he is. He cannot demur.

An obscure usage of the definition of demur.

[Gil-galad]

I guess it's my obligation to vote Amsterdam-like now. Create opportunities for people to be irresponsible. I should start handing out syringes now, so that the druggies will be less likely to get HIV; money for poor people who can't afford their abortion bills and birth control prescriptions. Western civilization: The Perennial Amsterdam. Orgies on the side of the road, revolving doors at the abortion clinics and minute-long gay weddings. All right! I'm looking forward to it! I am now one of you. Anything goes. Uphoria is here. Drugs, orgies, abortions. Anything you want -- it's all free and welcome.

I'm sorry but I'd rather not live in a perpetual Amsterdam.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by EarthBound

errrr, I think--Spock ) but perhaps sew on a lot of patches, many we share here at the moot, what we have fun discussing are the ones we don't share, eh?

[EarthBound]

Originally Posted by Spock

Sorry, I'll speak slower

1. same jersey = we're all human
2. different patches = ideals, believes, constructs, dishwashers, etc.

ps...I was questioning your 'human' status

[Gil-galad]

At least we have one thing over our animal brethren. We can kill our unwanted babies...they have to give birth to them before they abandon them.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Spock

Actually it is what is defined by law which in most cases is defined by the Church...what you choose has nothing to do with the meaning of the word.

marriage is not defined by the church in the country i live in... but i was talking about it in a broader, moral sense

some derive "value" from scripture, and by fashioning a society that conforms within what they think, and possibly even the majority think, is right... without this structure things become meaningless

some derive "value" from family, friends, society and tolerance of things that they do not necessaily agree with, but do not directly effect their own quality of life, or at least not greatly... meaning comes from each and every one of these things and is also independent of any shortcomings

that is a choice one can make, no matter what the law books say

[Spock]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

marriage is not defined by the church in the country i live in...

Where the heck do you live, Catholic Boston, Marriage is a device and definition of the Church from eons back (that's a long time ago for those living in rio lindo)

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Spock

Where the heck do you live, Catholic Boston, Marriage is a device and definition of the Church from eons back (that's a long time ago for those living in rio lindo)

as i demonstrated earlier, marriage has existed outside the realm of the church since the founding of our county... don't make me repeat myself

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Spock

Where the heck do you live, Catholic Boston, Marriage is a device and definition of the Church from eons back (that's a long time ago for those living in rio lindo)

and btw... so is "witch hunt"

[Rían]

Originally Posted by EB

RÃ*an has done a good job (more than should be needed) to show a tolerant endeavor in this discussion while being honest with the posters by being honest with RÃ*an, per say…..which is the important lesson to learn and exercise for further engrossing ‘conversation’….IMHO

Thanks, EB I like how you put it - it's being honest with others to be honest yourself, or something like that. I do try to always tell the truth, even if it "hurts" my "side".

Originally Posted by inked

He cannot demur

For some reason, I love the sound of that word!

Originally Posted by brownie

... don't make me repeat myself

LOL!

[Spock]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

as i demonstrated earlier, marriage has existed outside the realm of the church since the founding of our county.

this country was founded by people seeking religious freedom (mostly) and marriage was defined by their religious beliefs as man/woman.


..

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

don't make me repeat myself

Repeating is your favorite retort but unfortunately it doesn't make it true.

[Spock]

Applies to Mooters as well.

[EarthBound]

Originally Posted by Spock

Applies to Mooters as well.

**silence....occasional cricket....owl hoots....EB holds hands over mouth

[Spock]

lmaorotf

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Gil-galad

I mean that from even an evolutionary perspective, homosexuality is unproductive.

actually... you may want to look through this thread before you declare that to be a fact since weve touched upon this a few times and possible reasons for homosexuality to exist in nature have been explored in some detail. You conception of biology and genetics is a little confused if you think any creature that doesnt engage in breeding practices has no purpose at all. Nature is inveriably way more complicated then that. Simply look at how other forms of life engage in reproduction to see that there are other rolls possible.

It may not harm people physically, but it harms the value system that has ruled Western civilization for over 1,000 years.

How does it do this exactly? And why 1,000 years? Homosexuality was ok before then? And by the way why is it that western "civilization" is considered the ultimate measure of whats best and right in human history?

But, as I said, if you believe humans are nothing but common animals, then this goes out the window. Our civilization is then undignified, should crumble and create an atmosphere of "every man for himself" henceforth. Anything goes. You don't want to be burdened with safe sex? Happen to slip up, "oh, well, just pay a small fee and forget about it." Don't want to consider the moral and biological implications that go along with homosexuality? "Oh, well, HIV is not so deadly anymore. And you had a good orgy, so it's all worth, eh?" Such a civilization is irresponsible. Anything goes. Trippy, ain't it?

My quite over the top arent you. Should this be filed in the "homosexuality will lead to the destruction of the universe" files with some of the other nonsensical diatribes?

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Spock

this country was founded by people seeking religious freedom (mostly) and marriage was defined by their religious beliefs as man/woman.

common law marriage was the norm in early america... marriage could be defined by their religious beliefs, but it did not have to be

Originally Posted by Spock

Repeating is your favorite retort but unfortunately it doesn't make it true.

just as ignoring history does not make something untrue

[EarthBound]

Originally Posted by Spock

lmaorotf

eh....[re-arranges letters] farmtool

[inked]

Originally Posted by Spock

Exactly.




An obscure usage of the definition of demur.

O, be still my heart, you noticed! Chalk up another victory for super-underhanded-educator-Man!

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Gil-galad

Would you think less of LOTR if Aragorn wedded Elrond instead? Or if Pippin and Merry got hitched? Oh, but, marriage has no meaning to liberals, though, does it? It's all a bunch of hogwash. Just sign a form and be done with it. There's nothing holy about anything. Anything goes.

Welcome to the Moot Gil-galad, I love your avatar! Celtic knots are awesome.

To answer the questions in your post:

Would you think less of LOTR if Aragorn wedded Elrond instead? Or if Pippin and Merry got hitched?
No, I wouldn't. It would be Tolkien!

Oh, but, marriage has no meaning to liberals, though, does it? It's all a bunch of hogwash.
As a liberal, I can safely say this is hogwash. I hope to get married myself (in the reasonably distant future), and it will be a wonderful, life-long commitment.

So, how do your two statements knit together?