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12-05-2003, 12:49 AM | #41 |
High King of Númenórë
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Well I don't know how you can say the "story" was changed. I mean the underlying theme is still there, the only thing that has been changed are certain scenes, but there aren't any big changes that drastically change the theme and the mood of what Tolkien wrote. I mean none of the main characters die when they aren't supposed to. THAT would change the story, not something like leaving out my lovely Dúnedain in the Paths of the Dead.
Now I give that example, because it is my absolute favorite part of the Lord of the Rings, that is the Passing of the Grey Company. Now, I am a huge huge HUGE fan of the Dúnedain (if you couldn't tell ), but with them not being in the movie, it isn't going to change the story or the outcome, it's just going to change that scene. Heck, Halbarad was supposed to be Aragorn's closest friend and kinsman of the Dúnedain and Tolkien doesn't even mention Aragorn's reaction when Halbarad dies on the Pellanor Fields, Aragorn just goes about his business like nothing happened. Now, I don't think Boyens and Jackson should have written scenes out of nothing, but in the scenes where they did, it did hold true to the overall theme. And yes, I have disliked changes and ommissions, but again it still doesn't affect the outcome for me. I am still given a wonderful look at something we have all dreamt about. Now, I am not saying they improved Tolkien's work by any means, cuz I'm not. I'm just saying that a lot of the people who get so up in arms about changes do so about things that aren't affecting the theme and overall outcome. Remember, this is an ADAPTATION. It needs to translate on screen, are you telling me Tom Bombadil would translate on screen? Come on, that would have been horrible, lol, seeing some weird guy prancing around singing and stuff (I like Tom, but on screen I just don't think it would have worked at all, lol). Besides, we still have one movie left. Will there be changes and ommissions? Yes. Will they affect the theme and outcome of the work? So far they haven't and I doubt they will in RotK. If you want to argue any changes that affect or come close to the theme of the work, it will be the ommission of the Scouring of the Shire, however there hasn't been anything of that magnitude that has been changed thus far. If you think there is, let's discuss it, because in my opinion there is not, but I am open to what you have to say, but I'd prefer we keep the discussion civil and stop resorting to all this mudslinging and name calling... Now again, as a disclaimer so my words aren't twisted here, I am not saying that those changes and ommissions are good, because there were changes that I didn't like, but again they are only parts and snippets of the work not the overall theme, mood and layout of the work...
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
12-05-2003, 01:03 AM | #42 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 12-05-2003 at 01:04 AM. |
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12-05-2003, 01:32 AM | #43 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Dunedain - I was going to respon to you in your other thread but SGH closed it - I am putting it here...
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 12-05-2003 at 01:34 AM. |
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12-05-2003, 01:37 AM | #44 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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My use of the "movie moron" term did what it was meant to do - show the deragatory way that "purist" was being used. Now both are banned - so that is good. It was the only way to show people how deragatory that term was - since everyone seemed to just accept the way BB has been talking to and about the book fans.
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12-06-2003, 08:15 PM | #45 |
Banned
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I have no problem being called a "purist", even though I don't consider myself one. I don't see how Tom B. could have been portrayed on film by any actor without making him seem... fruity. I just don't think anyone is up for the job. So, I suppose that means I'm not a "purist". *shrugs* But I love the books as they are. And I still stand by my statements that PJ has ruined the story.
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12-07-2003, 04:56 AM | #46 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
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I've never considered 'purist' to be an abusive term.
I'm curious how the battle scenes will be. If those scenes are going to take most of the screen time, they better be damn good.
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12-07-2003, 11:05 AM | #47 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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12-07-2003, 11:19 AM | #48 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-07-2003, 11:42 AM | #49 |
Lurker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lothlórien
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There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium... |
12-07-2003, 11:44 AM | #50 |
the greg the admin
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,101
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^broken link
*edit* nevermind, I fixed it |
12-07-2003, 12:15 PM | #51 | ||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 198
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from elfgirl's posted review.
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and what the hell is this?
Last edited by squinteyedsoutherner : 12-07-2003 at 12:18 PM. |
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12-07-2003, 12:37 PM | #52 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-07-2003, 12:46 PM | #53 | |
Elven Warrior
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Location: Canada
Posts: 198
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12-07-2003, 01:04 PM | #54 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
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I really did want to like this film, but these spoilers are making me ill. Like the reviewer said, it is best to be prepared for disappointments. Was Denethor too complex too depict? Was Aragorn not motivated enough by the potential detruction of ME? It seems to me that PJ is being vindictive to book fans at this point because these changes don't even make sense in conjunction with the first two movies.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
12-07-2003, 01:16 PM | #55 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 828
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I can understand some of your worries but you are basing your criticisms on second-hand information. I think it's good to go to the film psychologically prepared for changes from the book. But on the other hand, going in with the mindset that Jackson is going to screw you over is certainly going to sour your appreciation of the film. I don't understand why some people deliberately ruin the fun for themselves.
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12-07-2003, 01:20 PM | #56 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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the worst parts by far....
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12-07-2003, 01:22 PM | #57 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-07-2003, 01:38 PM | #58 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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So my appreciation of the movies have been soured from the first time I saw FotR and has only gotten worse since then.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-07-2003, 01:52 PM | #59 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 828
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I never really grasped that you thought Jackson made pure action films the first two million times you told me. But...I think we've ALL GOT IT now. Okay? You don't need to keep reminding us with essentially the same posts over and over again a hundred times a day. |
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12-07-2003, 02:29 PM | #60 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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