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03-02-2003, 07:51 PM | #41 |
The Negative Soul of Entmoot
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My opinion is that, since we have no hope of ever getting out of, say, our universe, what's the point? If we're never going to get far enough to really, really make it worth it, why are we trying? Ok, so say we could some how get out of our galaxy. Good. We have passed a goal. What next? Explore the next galaxy over? And after that, the next? And the next? The task will never end, we could strive forever, and never reach the end of space. So really, what's the point? How is anything we learn going to help us in the long run?
This is just my opinion so please don't kill me if it's not what you think.
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03-02-2003, 08:09 PM | #42 |
the Shrike
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One could also have said: what's the point of sending ships half way around the world into unknown, uncharted territory. If they hadn't taken the plunge, America would not have been discovered. Much the same can be said of space. Just cos we don't have the technology now, doesn't mean that it will be forever beyond us. Who knows: maybe there's another "America" to be discovered out there?.... God help us all.
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03-03-2003, 03:01 PM | #43 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
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In my opinion the solar system alone is "far enough to make it worth it". Certainly the galaxy. I think we need a quick scale lesson to remind us just what we are talking about here: Theres something like 200 million stars in our galaxy alone. of which ONE is our star the sun. And we havent even scratched the surface here in our "little" solar system so why dont we concentrate on that first before we start pushing the walls of the universe. Now there are about 100 billion GALAXIES in the known universe. (Im doing these numbers from memory so forgive me if im not totally accurate but the idea is theres a ton of stuff to explore out there). Once we start talking about "exploring the galaxy" using the word "we" stops applying really. Because by the time we get into other parts of the galaxy "we" will be different from what left earth centuries before. If and when we actually push out beyond the galaxy itself "we" will be "them". We will have diversified a million times over. So really our only worry needs to be the next stepping stone. Which is Mars or somewhere in our solar system. we have more then enough here to keep us busy for quite a while.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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03-03-2003, 06:25 PM | #44 |
The Buddy Rabbit
Join Date: Oct 2002
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At least it won't involve any heavy lifting.
It seems that China is looking out further than our orbit.
Mining on the Moon I can see some big international arguments breaking out, it this ever comes to fruition. |
03-03-2003, 06:40 PM | #45 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
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But dont we have enough cheese here on earth?
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
03-04-2003, 02:54 AM | #46 |
Fowl Administrator
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Not according to Wallace and Gromit, we don't.
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03-04-2003, 10:43 PM | #47 | ||||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Right here in between yesterday and tomorrow.
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Well said, Elenka.
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The latter worked out. The former will not. Quote:
The scale is invariant, and so in our own civilizations throughout the world we should expect such massive "catastrophes" over time, in the short term as well as the long, rather than not even take them into consideration. And in space, everything natural is deadly to us.... Quote:
OK, so some people still disagree over Robert Frost's ability to write free verse, but none argue that he had a good ear for dialect and the rhythm of New England life. But will there be no poetry written in space that has broad appeal for those billions of us who remain on earth by choice or destiny? Somehow, I believe that indeed will be the case. As for the contemplative life, the Buddhists are 2600 years along and are still forever young, showing no signs of flagging or boredom.
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03-04-2003, 11:03 PM | #48 | |
The Elven Queen Of All Pyros
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Im like a little bug stuck in the lamp...never going anywhere
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yea, without exploring, how can we be so sure that nothing better or anything else is out there? plus, when the sun blows up in 5 billion years, we'll need another place to go
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03-05-2003, 01:05 AM | #49 | |||
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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03-05-2003, 04:34 AM | #50 | |
Viggoholic
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Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. |
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03-05-2003, 10:46 AM | #51 | ||||
Elven Warrior
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In short, a lot of people would like to earn a good living just talking and writing about space, and there just aren't enough positions available for all of them, so the field must be widened. Thus the thread of self-interest underlies much of the "gee whiz" stuff one hears so much of these days (one key factor in widening the field is to broaden the demand for it). But it really has little to do with actually going OUT THERE, as the Apollo program did. (By the way, back in those days, I was an avid supporter of the OUT THERE crowd, but was also very glad to see Columbia touch down and the shuttle era begin.) Quote:
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Found a nice one-stop site this morning on mass extincitions. Anyway, there are alternatives to just about any mass-extinction hypothesis; the alternative to the "catastrophe" hypothesis, with particular reference to the extinction at the end of the Cretaceous period (the dinosaurs, and many other species as well), has been proposed by a heavy-set white scientific gentleman with a beard whose name I can't remember, though it was mentioned in "Jurassic Park": disease killed 'em off. He's come up with a few more, too; his main interest seems to be in pointing out that we don't actually know anything about it. It happened a long time ago and the geologic and fossil records are incomplete. It's relevant, this discussion of Earth's deep past, because in some respects our exploration of it can be compared to that of deep space. Where we have come from can give us valuable insight into where we are going. Only we have more to go on here. And still we don't know very much, and much of what we do know turns out to be incorrect (just ask the folks who used to believe that continents were static and mountain formation had to do with vertical movements, as would seem obvious enough, rather than horizontal movements, as has been proven). Give us an immediate goal -- beat the Russians to the moon, for instance -- and we'll do it without hesitation. But ask us to bridge the unbridgeable gap between the cold, stark and beautiful reality above our heads and, say, "Star Trek: The Next Generation," and you'll have a very hard time selling it.
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03-05-2003, 11:17 AM | #52 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oxon, UK
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Apologies for butting in halfway, but I've been away.
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It strikes me that there's a lot of myths about exactly what the benefits of the space programmes are. Does anyone actually know what these wonderful "off-shoot" technologies actually are? |
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03-05-2003, 06:43 PM | #53 | |||||
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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But anyway... Quote:
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Now Im sure disease was rampant after this event of course and Im sure it killed lots of life forms but I think it was just a secondary effect of the impact itself. If you lose sunlight for 10 years yer gonna get sicker more often. And if it was only disease then it wouldnt explain why something like 85% of the species on the planet died off. We are talking everything from algea and plankton to snails and fish to the biggest dinosaurs. It didnt descriminate. Luckily a few primitive mammals survived the nuclear winter and creeped out to take over the world themselves. And here we are! Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 03-05-2003 at 06:48 PM. |
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03-05-2003, 07:21 PM | #54 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 30
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re
Nobody asnwered the question posted above: What are the direct benefits the space program has given us? I'm not saying its a total waste, but perhaps we should focus on the more theoretical aspects of discovery. Missions that fail because of a simple mistake and cost millions are horribly wasteful. Missions that send old equipment into space for practically useless tests are wasteful. If NASA takes some initiative and makes some daring missions that will yield interesting results, then sure, by all means. We DO have to get off this rock in awhile anyway. But for the past (?) NASA hasn't been doing much even though it's spending alot.
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03-05-2003, 08:39 PM | #55 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Durham, England
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I don't think this is a controversial view at all, see: http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=1494/.../0101hc001.htm or http://hallinternet.com/net_history_trends/179.shtml for instance. I'm not saying we wouldn't have eventually got there anyway, obviously we would have (probably driven by military research) but all the same Apollo definitely accelerated the process.
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03-05-2003, 08:48 PM | #56 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Durham, England
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And besides why pick on space?
For instance: US Government funding of NASA in 2003: about $15 billion US spending on cosmetics in 2001 (couldn't find anything more recent!): about $44 billion One less lipstick per month girls and we'll be in hyperspace in no time!
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I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I? |
03-05-2003, 11:26 PM | #57 | |
Slacker
Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002
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How about these for benefits of the space shuttle program?
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03-05-2003, 11:29 PM | #58 | |
Slacker
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continued...
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Besides, how can you argue against a program that gave us Tang?
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"If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31 |
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03-05-2003, 11:31 PM | #59 |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
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hmmm Im having dejavu all over again.....
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
03-05-2003, 11:39 PM | #60 |
Slacker
Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alabama
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Yeah, I know, but I had the information handy.
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"If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31 |
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