Fahrenheit 9/11 Review Thread - Page 3

Hemel · 07-13-2004, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Ragnarok
Yes, isn't it ironic how people whine and complain that no one should believe what Moore says because its all false information.

Indeed. May I gently suggest here that if such a stick is used to beat MM then that same stick could also be used to beat our leaders? Because it seems to me, from much of what I have read and seen recently, that there are, to say the least, some doubts over the veracity of the information that was supplied to justify the war in Iraq, and some concerns over the way the information was presented for the public.

Perhaps it is that MM's constructions are rather easier to spot and to critique that we hear so much about it. Maybe too because he is, as it were, an outsider to government and therefore to the most powerfully authorised way of thinking. I suggest there could also be an element of shock - we'd all like to think, I believe, that those in power are acting in our interests, and to understand that just maybe sometimes they aren't can be difficult to accept.

Quote:

Beor:
And I hope you get lots of what I have been deprived of too

Thanks! I intend to ...

The Gaffer · 07-13-2004, 01:15 PM

They're not easier to spot, they just have millions more spotters and cheerleaders than the opposing view.

Bush and Blair said we'd find WMDs and there weren't any, said that Saddam had links to Al Qaida and he didn't, claimed they'd reduce terrorism and it increased. Those are some pretty stark facts right there and it doesn't take a PhD in international relations to spot them.

However, when you have legions of highly paid spin doctors and compliant media moguls to push these minor items off the agenda, you can then relax and spend your time picking holes in the opposition.

Starr Polish · 07-14-2004, 02:45 AM

I saw this movie yesterday with my fairly liberal friend. I call myself "super-moderate" and am completely undecided about who I'm voting for. I hate politics in general and see them as a battle of power among the rich and that's about all.

I believe there was definitely some truth to the movie, as well as clever editing, taking things out of context, and twisted facts, as you'll find in ANYTHING of a political nature. It's only as high profile as it is because of the reputation of the director/the fact that it's a fairly extremist point of view (extremist meaning far left, not "crazy").

I think that Moore took some cheap shots at the president that were undeserved. I also think that some of the nastier things he said about Bush were justified.

It didn't sway me either way, since I'm still very much undecided. It did, however, inspire me to pay more attention to the news (and several sources of it, so I can get all sides of the biases) and become more politically involved/informed.

FoolofaTook · 07-22-2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starr Polish

It did, however, inspire me to pay more attention to the news (and several sources of it, so I can get all sides of the biases) and become more politically involved/informed.

That's good. That's one of the reasons Mr. Moore made the film, to get people informed and involved in politics.

Janny · 07-22-2004, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

That's good. That's one of the reasons Mr. Moore made the film, to get people informed and involved in politics.

Ah... to think how JD would respond to 'informed'.

Pirate · 07-26-2004, 06:46 PM

I saw the movie finally and was hystericly crying during Christmas in Iraq and when the mother was reading the letter from her son. I don't see how you'd think that the movie was disrespecting the troups becuase after I left the theater I had never had more respect for them. The movie didn't make them seem like clowns, it made them seem like boys and that's what they are. They are young boys dying for (in my oppinion) nothing but money.

The Gaffer · 07-27-2004, 04:57 AM

I finally saw it too.

While I'm definitely in the choir being preached to here, it was interesting and not only gave some new insights but was a good film in its own right. I felt it was slightly too long, but otherwise was well paced, clear, and not too preachy. Some of the timing on the edits was great.

I has forgotten that they were all going "Saddam has no weapons and no capability for getting them" in the Summer of 2001. Ha! This is perhaps its most valuable feature: as a record, in case we forget. Because we will; we already are forgetting.

Clearly, Moore should make no apology for making a partisan film. All of the other media representations we have had have been propaganda manipulated by our various governments, so this is just one small counterweight. We were duped into believing that Saddam was a threat so we have a right, in fact we have a responsibility, to work out why and how.

It's very difficult to accept the premise of Moore's film, which is that an American president started a war with the specific purpose of enriching his elite band of supporters and securing access to another country's resources. That is indeed a very difficult premise to accept, because it means WE'RE THE BAD GUYS.

In that sense, Moore did a very skillful job of portraying the front-line troops as humans who are as much caught up in the situation as the Iraqis. Wasn't it priceless when he was trying to get the Congressmen to sign up their kids for active duty?

07-14-2004, 02:45 AM	#3
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	I saw this movie yesterday with my fairly liberal friend. I call myself "super-moderate" and am completely undecided about who I'm voting for. I hate politics in general and see them as a battle of power among the rich and that's about all. I believe there was definitely some truth to the movie, as well as clever editing, taking things out of context, and twisted facts, as you'll find in ANYTHING of a political nature. It's only as high profile as it is because of the reputation of the director/the fact that it's a fairly extremist point of view (extremist meaning far left, not "crazy"). I think that Moore took some cheap shots at the president that were undeserved. I also think that some of the nastier things he said about Bush were justified. It didn't sway me either way, since I'm still very much undecided. It did, however, inspire me to pay more attention to the news (and several sources of it, so I can get all sides of the biases) and become more politically involved/informed. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

07-26-2004, 06:46 PM	#6
Pirate Enting Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dancing with the Ligers Posts: 88	I saw the movie finally and was hystericly crying during Christmas in Iraq and when the mother was reading the letter from her son. I don't see how you'd think that the movie was disrespecting the troups becuase after I left the theater I had never had more respect for them. The movie didn't make them seem like clowns, it made them seem like boys and that's what they are. They are young boys dying for (in my oppinion) nothing but money. __________________ "In a thousand years, there will be no men and women, just wankers, and that's fine by me. " ~Renton, Trainspotting

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07-13-2004, 01:15 PM	#2
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	They're not easier to spot, they just have millions more spotters and cheerleaders than the opposing view. Bush and Blair said we'd find WMDs and there weren't any, said that Saddam had links to Al Qaida and he didn't, claimed they'd reduce terrorism and it increased. Those are some pretty stark facts right there and it doesn't take a PhD in international relations to spot them. However, when you have legions of highly paid spin doctors and compliant media moguls to push these minor items off the agenda, you can then relax and spend your time picking holes in the opposition.

07-27-2004, 04:57 AM	#7
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	I finally saw it too. While I'm definitely in the choir being preached to here, it was interesting and not only gave some new insights but was a good film in its own right. I felt it was slightly too long, but otherwise was well paced, clear, and not too preachy. Some of the timing on the edits was great. I has forgotten that they were all going "Saddam has no weapons and no capability for getting them" in the Summer of 2001. Ha! This is perhaps its most valuable feature: as a record, in case we forget. Because we will; we already are forgetting. Clearly, Moore should make no apology for making a partisan film. All of the other media representations we have had have been propaganda manipulated by our various governments, so this is just one small counterweight. We were duped into believing that Saddam was a threat so we have a right, in fact we have a responsibility, to work out why and how. It's very difficult to accept the premise of Moore's film, which is that an American president started a war with the specific purpose of enriching his elite band of supporters and securing access to another country's resources. That is indeed a very difficult premise to accept, because it means WE'RE THE BAD GUYS. In that sense, Moore did a very skillful job of portraying the front-line troops as humans who are as much caught up in the situation as the Iraqis. Wasn't it priceless when he was trying to get the Congressmen to sign up their kids for active duty?