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#501 | |||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#502 | ||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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In no way does this thread further the prejudice, I think. It can do so, but only for those who desire to further their prejudice. I at any rate am not concerned in the least with making pre-formed judgements against homosexuals (such as "they are good decorators"; that is prejudice as much as "gays are effete"). What I am concerned with is primarily the following: A) The morality or immorality of homosexual sex. B) The understanding of the distinction between inclination and act. C) How society should react to the above. I am not concerned with forming any sort of judgement on homosexuals, only with the abstract of the act or the inclination. If you look at gays as persons, and look at the homosexual act as something separate from them, I think that is the best way to avoid pre-judging them.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#503 | |||||||||||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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Let's say someone is at a level of 5 regarding the scale of help and harm. Then, by smacking them upside the head, I substract 1 from their score. Thus, they are now at 4. If two people at level 5 enter the lottery, and one does not win, and the other gains a minor 100 dollar prize worth 1 point, then the one will remain at level 5, while the other goes up to level 6. Do you see what I mean? Someone cannot be harmed or benefited without actually undergoing something, and if some benefit is not bestowed on someone, they are not harmed; they simply aren't benefited. Quote:
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I disagree that it is likely; possible, certainly, but not likely. Quote:
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In the second place, I believe that the only to achieve such understanding is through, as I indicate above, revelation from God; by no means is it possible through my own reason alone. Quote:
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1) God became flesh. 2) God died for our sins, that we might be saved through His blood. 3) God instituted a hierarchical organization to guide us. 4) God promised to lead this organization into all truth. 5) God will never let the gates of hell prevail against this organization. 6) God appointed a solitary figure as the head of this organization and His steward. 7) God gave this figure the keys of heaven and hell. 8) God preserves this organization from teaching error. 9) All salvation comes through this organization. And maybe some other things that I didn't think of. ![]() Quote:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#504 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/arti...773952,00.html Care to comment on how the mathematics of homophobia stack up with societal discrimination such as the denial of equal "benefits"? |
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#505 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 301
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If I'm following your reasoning, Gwaimir, saying that "everyone in the company gets a raise except those with red hair" is not harming redheads.
Or saying , as the Nazis did "we're building new housing, offering new medical benefits, and new employment opportunities, but Jews are not eligible" is not harming Jews. Or when Stalin said that people weren't allowed into the new universities without avowing atheism, that wasn't harming Christians |
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#506 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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![]() If you, Gaffer, sincerely thought about it and decided that het marriages have been so bad lately that only homo marriages should be allowed, then IMO, by golly you should make your voice known and vote in a way that supports that idea. Society has LONG recognized limits on who should be able to marry. The argument that your side typically uses about my side "denying rights" to a group is just empty - your side (except those who want to completely abolish marriage, or who think ANYTHING should be fine, the sky's the limit) does the exact same thing. The real question is, IMO, what each person thinks the def. of marriage should be, and what they base those opinions on. You and I differ on ONE part of the definitions, and what we base our opinion on is a differing worldview system that each of us has, in all sincerity, come to believe is true. Whether the belief system is written down or not is totally irrelevant; what IS relevant, IMO, is the thought that has been put into analyzing the belief systems, including alternative belief systems. And as I've said before, I've put thousands of hours into the analysis. What would you say to three lesbians who really love each other and wish to marry? "Sorry, only two!" ??? If you claim that the def. of marriage is open to change, then logically, it's open to ANY change and ANY definition. Fine, but don't say that one particular group's definition is wrong because they're excluding a group when you're excluding, too. This is such a painful topic, I really wish sometimes that I had homosexual inclinations so I could somehow be of more comfort to homosexuals ... I would say the same thing to a homosexual that I would say to a married woman that really loved and wanted to marry another man while keeping her current husband - "I'm so sorry you have this pain to deal with, but IMO it is by far the best thing for society, and especially for children, to say that marriage is between one man and one woman, and I will not be able to support your campaign to change the definitions so that you can marry this other man, too."
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! ![]() "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 05-15-2006 at 04:21 PM. |
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#507 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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As katt says, "I get bothered sometimes, but I'm glad we have this thread to debate this in everyway possible instead of just resorting to violence like we would do in person." You're not the only one getting hurt in this thread, Elfhelm, although I think your hurt is probably greater than mine. Try having names like "hater", etc., thrown at you when hate is the farthest thing from your mind ![]()
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! ![]() "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 05-15-2006 at 04:26 PM. |
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#508 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Ah, Elfhelm, you ought to know that all (a very inclusive term, that!) have sinned and come short of the glory of God. It is not just homosexuals as you imply. And the moral laundry lists in the OT and NT are pretty inclusive, too,
but recall that Jesus extended the moral law to the intent and thought while not requiring the act. So, as I noted above, all is a very inclusive term. That means Rian and I aren't on a podium thundering opprobrium down on the audience. We're sitting in the audience ACKNOWLEDGING that we are sinners too. This is one area in life where there is absolute and total equality-sin. But humanity hasn't been left there. All sin has had reparation completed to the n-th degree. That discussion properly belongs on the religious threads, though.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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#509 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
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The reason we were told not to judge other people is because it was SUPPOSED to be a personal relationship between you and God, and sin, which is mostly from pride, is harmful TO THAT RELATIONSHIP because it puts distance between you. But the false version, the perversion of Jesus' teachings has included the establishment of an intervening priesthood, the creation of a political agenda, and the unceasing judgement of fellow beings - which in my book is a sin in itself. It is caused by pride. You can hem and haw, but I am not fooled. I'm too old to fall for verbal shenanigans. Read the Book and have your personal relationship with God. And keep your judgements to yourself. Thank you.
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#510 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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See you on the theology thread, Elfhelm!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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#511 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
oh rats, the kiddos just got home and need to eat - later! ![]()
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! ![]() "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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#512 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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I'm not a sinner.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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#513 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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your opinion on the subject may not count ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! ![]() "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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#514 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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or something like that, right, BJ?! ![]()
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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#515 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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or it was perhaps just an evolutionary throwback moment ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! ![]() "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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#516 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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Quote:
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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#517 | |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
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#518 |
Spammer of the Happy Thread
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 3,512
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Today, May 17th, is the International Day Against Homophobia. You can read about IDAHO here: www.idahomophobia.org
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"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. " - C. Sagan My (photography) website My Flickr page |
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#519 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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#520 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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Quote:
No, not at all. I meant to include a ![]() But again, no, I wasn't offended. I'm quite used to hearing the Catholic Church put down; when non-Catholics mention her, it's more or less all they do, after all. I intended that quote to be entirely light-hearted, and apologise for failing to include the tell-tale smiley.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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