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11-21-2005, 03:48 PM | #381 | ||
Advocatus Diaboli
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if we observed an electronic transmission that seemed to be flashing in a pattern that was regular and not something we normally see naturally, we could theorize alien intelligence behind it because we know humans can make these kind of signals... even if they were stronger than signals we could produce with current technology if we saw a star suddenly pop into existance, we would not theorize an alien cause (or no good scientist would without actually seeing the aliens)... because, as far as we know, this is not possible scientifically... even for an extremely advanced race... this does not mean it is ultimately impossible, just that it jumps so far ahead of our understanding of the universe we live in as to make scientific theorizing about it impossible it is why science theorizes about the big bang and after, but can't theorize about before it... there is nothing to base it on this is the problem with ID... we have never observed an intelligent being with the ability to create the universe out of a void... so the speculation is outside science Quote:
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11-21-2005, 03:55 PM | #382 | ||
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11-21-2005, 04:02 PM | #383 | |
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And just because some sci-fi has become reality doesn't mean everything you read in your sci-fi novels is possible
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11-21-2005, 04:08 PM | #384 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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hmm, correct but once again YOU DIDN'T READ WITH COMPREHENSION what I posted specifically addressed brownjenkins remarks (below). Originally Posted by brownjenkins creatures that can make matter and energy out of nothing do not exist, so we can not base a theory upon them |
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11-21-2005, 04:10 PM | #385 |
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Actually I did read BJ's post and I think creatures making energy out of nothing is as likely as a flying spaghetti monster
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11-21-2005, 04:16 PM | #386 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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COMPREHENSION means understanding the meaning of words. Saying something cannot exist or something is not likely, must be based upon fact..as there is no fact nor counter fact in existence, such statements are without meaning or merit. Our grasp of physics and laws are ethnocentric at best. That doesn't mean that other laws and rules do not exist nor what that implication implies as possible. ----------------------------------------- If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you."......and like Gandalf, I do not choose to.
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11-21-2005, 04:20 PM | #387 |
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Ok ok, sorry I said anything. I like physics but let's get back on topic, shall we
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11-21-2005, 04:39 PM | #388 | |
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if, for instance, we developed to the point that we could create a mini "universe" in a testube (think "horton hears a who" ), we could certainly imply that our own very existance is a result of a similar experiment... this would not solve the ultimate question, but it would give a viable scientific answer to at least a part of the question but we are not even close to that
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11-21-2005, 05:37 PM | #389 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Hmm, actually the idea of God creating everything is a VERY simple idea compared to evolution, hey?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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11-21-2005, 05:40 PM | #390 | ||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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11-21-2005, 05:45 PM | #391 | ||||
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Why do we need to "get over the supernatural being" thing? This is the keystone of the theory. I admit that I don't understand the fine points of ID, but if you don't have an intelligent designer, then you don't have Intelligent Design. You do make compelling arguments though RĂ*an. Jonathan, while I think Occam's Razor is often true, I don't think it's always true. Occam's Razor also says "make no more assumptions than needed". Well that's just good advice.
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11-21-2005, 05:48 PM | #392 | ||
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As Jodie Foster said in the movie "Contact": What's more likely, that an all-powerful mysterious god created the universe and then decided not to give any proof of its existence, or that it simply doesn't exist at all, and that we created him so that we wouldn't have to feel so small and alone? Of course, as an IDist, you might argue that God did in fact leave traces of his existance in his intelligent designs
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 11-21-2005 at 05:51 PM. |
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11-21-2005, 05:51 PM | #393 | ||
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what do ya'll evolutionist say to this critter?
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11-21-2005, 05:54 PM | #394 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Indeed.
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11-21-2005, 06:07 PM | #395 | ||
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I say there's no part of Evolution that says an egg-laying mammal with a bill can't have come about through natural means.
I guess IDists would say God's having a bit of a laugh eh? (Just kidding! )
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11-21-2005, 06:10 PM | #396 | ||
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nurv- would you care to give the mathematical odds of a platypus coming about through evolution? come one folks think critically here.
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11-21-2005, 06:15 PM | #397 | ||
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I have no idea Rohirrim TR. I mean, I'm happy to think critically, but
a) I don't know enough about math or probability b) I don't know enough about evolution c) I don't think you can even do that with evolution. At least, no human I've heard of is that good at math. But really, why is it so impossible that a duck-billed platypus has come about through evolution? Just because it's unique doesn't necessarily mean it can't have evolved.
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11-21-2005, 06:34 PM | #398 |
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Ooh, cute platypus!
The bill of the platypus is analogous to the bill of bird. That is to say, on a genetic level there are no similarities between the genes that are involved in the making of the bill of a bird and those involved in making a platypus bill. Now had the genes been homologous, it would have been really weird. Then the platypus shouldn't even exist So genetically, the platypus is still as far away from birds as other mammals are. If God created the platypus, why did he not put bird genes in it? Why did he invent new genes to make a biological structure that already existed in birds? (birds were created before mammals according to Genesis IIRC) If I were God, I wouldn't have re-used the bird bill genes
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 11-21-2005 at 06:37 PM. |
11-21-2005, 06:53 PM | #399 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
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11-21-2005, 07:35 PM | #400 | |||
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What do you think about my other comments RĂ*? (The ones in response to your interesting post - #378 on the previous page.) Not that I'm grasping for attention or anything. Jonathan made some interesting comments too.
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 11-21-2005 at 09:40 PM. |
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