Powerful creatures of ME

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Nerindel
(Ruinel- Shelob was blinded and stabbed by Sam and may have eventually died of her wounds, or of starvation caused by her inability to hunt while blind!)

I got the impression in the book that she would lick her wounds and hold out until she was healed, then she would be back on her game, killing and eating whatever she found. I never thought she was going to die of her wounds.

[Lalaith]

I know, it doesn't belong into this thread, but I like the theory of Bombadil beeing Eru himself.

And Jonathan, still after one month I know what I meant.

[Radagast The Brown]

But it's not make sence, that Tom Bombadil is Eru. Eru is much stronger, and I'm sure Gandalf would've recognize him/her (Eru. could be that he's a she)

[Lalaith]

But it's not make sence, that Tom Bombadil is Eru. Eru is much stronger, and I'm sure Gandalf would've recognize him/her (Eru. could be that he's a she)

Thanks for not saying Eru is male. I wanted to point out that Eru might be female, but all the others were saying that there is no way.
But maybe Eru hides his/her true powers. I think he might switch shapes like the Valar or Maiar.

[Radagast The Brown]

Eru, I think, don't have gender... he's/she's like a god.
In Edings books of the Belgeriad, the 'god' there is a male character. The universe is a female character.

[Ragnarok]

I always liked Beorn and I'd say hes a worthy opponent and definitely very powerful.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Ruinel
#1) Tom Bombodill: he could sing them to death (he almost sung me to death when I read that part in FotR, BORING)

You little...do I still have that Tolkien Excommunication rite around?

(GW - shelob was nothing compared to Ungoliant)

I definitely agree. But note what the thread-starter said:

I have left out creatures mentioned in other books of Tolkien, like Ungoliant. Let's also skip people like the wizards, the valar, the elves, the Uruk-hai and Sauron

My emphasis added, of course.

Both the wizards and the balrogs are maiar. Does that mean that the wizards and the balrogs are equally powerful?

I'm pretty sure that Tolkien said that the Maiar varied in rank and order, or something along those lines.

Lalaith, I believe that Tolkien said in his Letters that God (i.e. Eru) did not have a form in Middle-earth.

Also, I am almost certain that Tolkien always refers to Eru as "he".

he's/she's like a god.

Correction: the Valar are like gods. Eru is like God.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
You little...do I still have that Tolkien Excommunication rite around?

hehehe... and I'll tell you more... I was quite pleased when PJ left him and Goldberry out of the movie. If I had heard that they were in the movie, I never would have gone to see it. So, there.
Bring on the Grand Inquisitor! The Earth is not the center of the Universe. *wonders if anyone gets that at all*

Originally posted by Bishop Gwaimir Windgem (official excommunicator of the Holly EntMoot Church]
I'm pretty sure that Tolkien said that the Maiar varied in rank and order, or something along those lines.

Why not? Since the Valar certainly did.

Originally posted by G-dubya
Also, I am almost certain that Tolkien always refers to Eru as "he".

He refers to Eru as "he", but never says that he has is a male. Are you confused yet? Let me explain. In the book, it would be quite redundant to keep say Eru this and then Eru that and on and on. Instead, you would use "he". But it is a literary "he". Or he could have meant that Eru really was a male. I don't know the answer to this, I haven't read all the letters yet.

[Jonathan]

When the world was created, the other valar took either male or female form. To me, it seemed as if they chose their gender and that they were neither men nor women until they appeared in the world.
Since Eru never took any human form that I know of, 'he' can't be male, and 'he' can't be female. But that's no reason not to referr to Eru as "he". We say "he" about God, don't we?

To get back to the subject, I can say that Eru could bet any of the beasts of Middle-Earth anyday

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Ruinel
Bring on the Grand Inquisitor! The Earth is not the center of the Universe. *wonders if anyone gets that at all* [/i]

I got it! *is pleased with self*

Originally posted by Ruinel, the Condemned
I was quite pleased when PJ left him and Goldberry out of the movie. If I had heard that they were in the movie, I never would have gone to see it. So, there.

You have sealed your fate, my elvish friend. Alas for this dark day of folly.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
I got it! *is pleased with self*

Originally posted by Elf Girl
You have sealed your fate, my elvish friend. Alas for this dark day of folly.

Well then, I shall meet my fate... but I will not recant... the Earth is NOT the center of the universe and I stand behind Copernicus' theory! As well, Tom Bombodil was a bore! On with it, then!!! I stand at the ready for any punishment you have to bring my way!

OT: Johnathan, good point... Eru never took form, unlike the Valar. A Vala took on a form, male or female, that was in accordance with his or her personality in order to appear to Elves or Mortal Men. But Eru used Manwe as his voice, and so never appeared to either.
But that aside, I don't think Eru would count as a "creature". I think the essence of the thread was only those characters that had a shape other than that which we would consider Elven or Human form (ie, Balrogs, Shelob, Eagles....).

[Gwaimir Windgem]

If you'll notice, you're telling the starter of the thread what the thread was about. But if you'll read the first post, he said that it would be excluding creatures from the Silmarillion and later works.

[Jonathan]

Listen to Gwaimir. He says some very intelligent stuff

It seems as if most 'Mooters think the balrog is the strongest. I do too. But it's hard for me to imagine that the balrog could defeat Smaug. I mean, look at the size of the dragon! Even if the balrog could kill the dragon, it must be a very hard battle for him.

[Lalaith]

When the world was created, the other valar took either male or female form. To me, it seemed as if they chose their gender and that they were neither men nor women until they appeared in the world.

Yeah, that's right. I'm still the defender of the theory that God has not to be male, too.
But I guess it is a good point, that he never had a certain shape and therefore Eru is probably neither male nor female.

[Jonathan]

Thoughts about Goldberry.
Was she as powerful as Tom Bombadil? Would the Ring have no effect on her, which was the case with Tom?

Could Goldberry in secret be Eru?

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Thoughts about Goldberry.
Was she as powerful as Tom Bombadil? Would the Ring have no effect on her, which was the case with Tom?

Could Goldberry in secret be Eru?

Goldberry as Eru? That's a total new point of view.

We don't know her powers, because there is no need for her to use them. But I guess the ring didn't have an effect on her since she didn't try to get it.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Jonathan
It seems as if most 'Mooters think the balrog is the strongest. I do too. But it's hard for me to imagine that the balrog could defeat Smaug. I mean, look at the size of the dragon! Even if the balrog could kill the dragon, it must be a very hard battle for him.

What stories give a description of the dragons? I've forgotten. However, I know what the Balrogs look like because I recall the description.
I would comment, but I'm holding back to reread a description of the dragons.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Ruinel
What stories give a description of the dragons? I've forgotten. However, I know what the Balrogs look like because I recall the description.
I would comment, but I'm holding back to reread a description of the dragons.

I was thinking of the description of Smaug in The Hobbit. To me, Smaug seemed more impressive than the balrog in LotR.
But I still think the balrogs were more powerful than the dragons, at least slightly more powerful.

[Elf Girl]

What are the dragons anyway? Are they Maiar, or just creatures Melkor sang into existance?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
If you'll notice, you're telling the starter of the thread what the thread was about. But if you'll read the first post, he said that it would be excluding creatures from the Silmarillion and later works.

I had forgotten the first post.

Sorry, Johnathan. You asked about "creatures" and you defined "creatures" in your starting post for this thread. But you said to leave out the Valar, I'm also assuming Eru as well. I got the impression when you started this thread that you were naming beings that did not take on shape of Elves and Men. Am I mistaken?