01-29-2003, 11:31 AM | #21 |
im quite stupid
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cockermouth
Posts: 2,058
|
My two favorites are Beren and Tour. Allthough Hurin was a great warrior and was held captive for so long he was only kept alive by the wills of morgoth rather than his own will.
Beren is in IMHO the migest because he took upon a task that would of been deemed impossiable and in all truth probaboly was. He showed real bravery in all his life. Hurin also showed real Bravery in the way he let Turgon return back to the hidden kingdom and in all truth sacrificed all his men and his own life. But didnt all the men under his command also take upon this fate? Tour i also deem great because of the part in which he played in downfall in morgoth even though it is clear it was his destiny. By my vote goes to Beren
__________________
Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
01-29-2003, 01:23 PM | #22 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,870
|
Quote:
__________________
Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
|
01-29-2003, 02:45 PM | #23 | |
im quite stupid
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cockermouth
Posts: 2,058
|
Quote:
__________________
Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
|
01-29-2003, 04:06 PM | #24 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,870
|
Ehhh....well...It's not like he was unavailable. They could just go to Angband, knock on the door, asking the great dog lying in their way to go and fetch Morgoth, and then say: "I defy you!" up in his face. It's not that hard
__________________
Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
01-29-2003, 04:31 PM | #25 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,423
|
Quote:
|
|
01-29-2003, 07:52 PM | #26 | ||||||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
|
Quote:
Quote:
From the Lays of Beleriand: The Second Version of the Children of Húrin Quote:
Hmmm, the balrogs torment sounds to me like torture. I would say that to me, the fact that Húrin was kept alive by Morgoth was a worse punishment that being killed. The fact that Tolkien tells that Húrin might of soul unmatched in mankind says something about him. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
||||||
01-29-2003, 10:59 PM | #27 |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
|
Please! I don't know that you can compare it. Are you saying that what happened to Beren and Finrod did not take bravery? The horror that they suffered was different and I think much more violent. Don't demeen that quest. It was great if not greater, and the suffering was immense.
__________________
"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
01-29-2003, 11:21 PM | #28 |
High King of Númenórë
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Númenórë <--United States of America
Posts: 1,947
|
Ok, when I first read this thread yesterday it seemed like an "Opinion Thread", but now it has turned into a flaming war. I mean, are people not entitled to their opinions on this Maedhros? I like your persistance and the proof you've provided for your case, but let's not turn this into an arguement, we can all keep it civil, well except SGH hehe j/k!!
I would chime in with an opinion of my own here, however I haven't finished reading on all of these characters brought up yet, so I won't comment until I do so, but out of those I have read, I think each carries might/power/greatness/etc... in differing characteristics and in their own way...
__________________
'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
01-29-2003, 11:23 PM | #29 | ||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
|
Quote:
If I recall correctly, Beren was sitting waiting to die. From the Published Silmarillion: Of Beren and Lúthien Quote:
Another thing, Beren's quest became because of her love for Lúthien, a noble cause, but a selfish one, while Húrin saved Turgon so that the hope of the Eldar could still live on.
__________________
“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
||
01-29-2003, 11:30 PM | #30 | |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
|
Quote:
P.S. I'm not in the business of changing people opinions, I'm in the business of discussing the Silmarillion.
__________________
“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
|
01-29-2003, 11:35 PM | #31 | |
High King of Númenórë
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Númenórë <--United States of America
Posts: 1,947
|
Quote:
|
|
01-30-2003, 12:10 AM | #32 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: charlotte, n.c.
Posts: 1,081
|
After reading all of the above arguments and adding them to my own opinions, I can state that I am firmly in the Hurin camp. He was the greatest of the Edain!
|
01-30-2003, 08:04 AM | #33 | |
im quite stupid
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cockermouth
Posts: 2,058
|
Quote:
Depends how you define greatness was frodo as great as say Gandalf or aragorn? Did he have as much inate power as Gandalf hell no but did he face toil and still go on yes. Does this make him great yes. Beren has one thing over Hurin He cut a similil from the crown of morgoth achived the unthinkiable if you match greatness to the overall achivement downfall of morgoth then he easily wins.
__________________
Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot Last edited by Sween : 01-30-2003 at 08:07 AM. |
|
01-30-2003, 10:39 AM | #34 | |||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
|
Quote:
Question # 1: Why did Beren volunteer for the quest of the Silmaril? Answer: Because he wanted to wed Lúthien, nor for the sake of ME, but to gain something himself. Question # 2: Why did Húrin and Huor volunteer their lives to safe Turgon? Answer # 2: From the Published Silmarillion: Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad Quote:
Overall downfall of Morgoth you say? If someone of Turgon party like Maeglin would have been captured by Morgoth, they could have found the location of Gondolin sooner and Tuor would have no way of going there later. I ask you all, the deeds or the reasons behind them. Húrin could have betrayed the Eldar, he had no hope of escaping Angband, yet he resisted, he didn't gave up and he stood firmly against him and his daunting eyes. From Morgoth's Ring: Myths Transformed Quote:
__________________
“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
|||
01-30-2003, 11:05 AM | #35 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
|
Quote:
__________________
"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
01-30-2003, 11:10 AM | #36 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
|
Quote:
__________________
"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
01-30-2003, 11:27 AM | #37 | |
im quite stupid
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cockermouth
Posts: 2,058
|
Quote:
It would be nice to ask the elves whom they valued the most Hurin or Beren i would imigin they would say Beren. For all Hurins valour what did he achive (personally speaking)?
__________________
Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
|
01-30-2003, 11:57 AM | #38 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,870
|
I would say that seeing his family being destroyed through Morgoth's eyes on top of Morgoth's own fortress was worse than anything Sauron could do...
__________________
Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
01-30-2003, 12:26 PM | #39 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
|
Quote:
__________________
"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
01-30-2003, 12:32 PM | #40 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,870
|
And one more thing, while I'm at it:
Beren made the downfall of Doriath as much as Húrin made the downfall of Gondolin!
__________________
Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
lyrics thread ( not silly or trite) | afro-elf | Entertainment Forum | 511 | 03-19-2009 04:22 PM |
Offshoot discussion of "what religion are you" thread | Rían | General Messages | 2289 | 01-08-2004 02:31 AM |
Greatest Work | Arien the Maia | Middle Earth | 21 | 07-26-2003 11:11 AM |
The Greatest Weapon | Elessar_elfstone | Middle Earth | 80 | 06-21-2002 04:27 PM |
Was Frodo really a "hero" in the end? | stormcrow | Lord of the Rings Books | 29 | 09-23-2001 09:52 PM |