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#21 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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I tried to post earlier but I had computer problems
Hmmm. as for science saying IT is alive. a few cells, a zygote, a fetus the same? different? a vast majority of deaths due to pain and suffering that is practically assured to to lack of resources very slim chance a "possibilty" of some "savior" will be born. do you sacrifice millions in the hope for one? A least Cirdan has adopted and I THINK he is pro-choice. for all those who think the CHOICE should be taken away. I do not see ALL prolifers adopting kids. if they were SO into saving this kids why don't they adopt more. for each child you birth you should adopt one. that would give a lot of homes to needy kids AND give you one of your flesh and blood. hell if every prolifer at age 18 adopted a child I wonder what would happen...? put up or shut up. I think its easy to tell someone what to do but put your money where you mouth is. YOU go out a raise ALL the children that are hungery and dying. Don't go to school anymore. just get a job or two and raise some one else's kids. what's worse to stop extra misery and help those that are already here. your to constanstly feed the pain and agony machine. Darth Tater why do you assume that or I should say state the word fetus and use examples like partial birth abortains. There are early terms abortians and morning after pills etc. Why do you target the "extreme" again i say as for science saying IT is alive. a few cells, a zygote, a fetus the same? different? we in the west have it easy we have resources. But in 3rd world countries they don't I think it FAR cruel to subjectigate millions to a TRULY miserable life in the 3rd world. ( not the BS problems in the west) that will be short brutish and nasty than to prevent it. what kinda BS is this I respect life some much that I want you to suffer. This is about the 3rd world baby NOT the west. WE have resources and education they don't. thought disagree with you, your arguments have more clout info a westernized world but for the 3rd world it is vile and cruel. preventing suffereing from an ( EARLY TERM) abortian compared to a life of misery. Its easy for high shoolers, hausfrau, men, westerners in general to say such things with food on your plate, education etc to be so noble but you watch children die day after day, of sickeness, poverty, with no access to things we take for granted, like FOOD, SHELTER, CLOTHING, EDUCATION. You look into a mothers eyes who has lost ALL of her offspring because she does not have access to such basic things as mentioned above. life aint no bowl of !@##$%^& cherries for most people alive, it is short brutish and nasty for most people alive an if you think it is noble to condemn someone to that kind of life I can do without your type of noblity. recall that family planning does not equal abortion its more involved than that, my argument is for the 3rd world, IF it comes to that EARLY term abortions.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 07-01-2002 at 07:52 AM. |
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#22 |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 4,572
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Science is not completely sure on when a human becomes a human, but the time is being moved earlier and earlier. Should we risk murdering what could be a living human being, or should we wait till we know for sure when it becomes alive? The answer seems obvious.
As for the issue of abortion preventing the likelihood of dying. My god there is no logic there. |
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#23 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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![]() I think you're missing the point though. Family Planning is about prevention, health care, and natal/post natal care more than it is about terminations. By pulling the funding for - lets face it - nothing more than a political maneuver is just diabolical. How many third world mothers are going to miss out on crucial health care, and check ups because of this pig headedness?
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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#24 | |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 4,572
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BoP, listen to yourself, you're saying murder is alright if it's quick and relatively painless. Let me guess, you think doctor assisted suicide is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
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#25 | |||
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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#26 |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 4,572
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Not if the UN takes out the abortion part. Welcome to the happy go lucky world of politics!
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#27 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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Quote:
![]() (Ah go on, I know you want to misinterpret that... ![]()
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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#28 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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So you would rather a human to suffer than to prevent it from being born to prevent suffering.
Again I am stating this from 3rd world early termination
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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#29 | |
Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,214
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#30 | |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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Quote:
ours problems are not like theirs
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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#31 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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I have a question:
Should the US continue to fund the UN even though we know the money is going to be used in a way that the overwhelming majority of our citizens condemn? On the other side of the coin: Should we withdraw funding from a number obviously beneficial projects just because some of that funding might be diverted to immoral uses?
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
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#32 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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I can't believe what I'm reading here, I really can't. A lot of you support this just because it'll show the rest that 'abortion is bad'? Are you that blind? We're not talking about the west here with it's orphanages and it's social cares. We're talking about third world countries where every mouth too much can cause an entire family to starve. To let one child too many being born is condemning more to die. Isn't that murder too? Most children don't even survive the first three years.
Third world countries already have a large natality, soon there are too many to feed. There are already too many to feed, 800 million people are starving. And this program isn't just about abortion, it was a clever move from anti-abortiongroups to target only abortion but it's much more than that.
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We are not things. |
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#33 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: a galaxy far far away (aka Manchester)
Posts: 320
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This is a very moral issue so it ismpossible for anybody to be right I think it is cruel to terminate a pregnancy just because it wouldn't have a perfect life, noone has. Rather than working on Family Planning the UN should work on improving quality of life by providing integrated help so rather than giving a family a huge sack of meat they could give a goat with feed for it to provide milk so calcium for the growing children and the family could sell the excess milk for an income terminating pregnancies is no solution to the problem of the 3rd world
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Dovie'andi se tovya sagain "Courage my soul, now learn to wield The weight of thine immortal shield Place on thy head thy helmet bright Ballance thy sword against the fight See where an army strong as fair With silken banners spreads the air Now if thy bee'st that thing divine In this days combat let it shine: And shew that nature wants an art To conqeur one resolved heart" Andrew Marvell |
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#34 |
The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 4,572
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I simply don't see the logic of those who say the child should be "terminated" so they're not born into poverty. This is not a dog or cat we're talking about here, it's a human being! There is no gaurantee of an untimely death, though yes, it is likely. But with abortion it's a gaurantee.
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#35 | |
Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,214
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#36 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
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The Western view of abortion is totally lost on people in cultures were life is not valued. The main reason birth rates are high in these countries is becuase of the high infant mortality rates.
It may make you feel good about yourself to think you've saved a life by not funding abortion as part of family planning, but that is the only thing that will be accomplished. The child will die slowly and concious as opposed to quickly anf unconcious. Until we make a commitment to feed every starving child, then the funding should continue. Oh, and the UN bashers are completely uninformed. Who is first on the scene in crises around the world? Who sends peace keepers and aid workers into the most horrific situations? If they had better funding there was a chance that the Rawanda tragedy could have been averted, but as it was the contingent there was limited to saving a few children still clinging to the dead bodies of thier parents.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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#37 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
Getting back on topic though - I find it funny how everyone is screaming that if the US slashes funding to the UN family planning program and other third world aid packages run by the UN that it'll cause dire consequences in Africa. If the cutting of funding from ONE nation is going to cause those kinds of problems - maybe it's becuase other countries don't support enough. It seems to me what everyone is saying is that the United States is supposed to save the world. I think some other countries can pick up the slack. If more countries took a larger more active role - Americans might not be as arrogant. ![]() Also - as I've said - the US government is voted in by American citizens. Our government is supposed to listen to the people. Just because your countries may have no problems with abortions and stuff - doesn't mean that our country doesn't. At this moment in time - I don't have a problem with 1st term abortions - but the partial birth thing - is completely gross and sick. If the UN advocates forced sterilization or abortions - then I am for the elimination of funding. Why shouldn't the US tie our funding to causes it believes in? I don't donate to the Young Communists of America organisation. I make a choice to donate to the people that support what I believe in. Maybe the UN should just create an "abortion/sterilization" fund seperate from the general health care and education. Then those countries that support that can donate to that fund and the US can choose where it's money goes.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 07-03-2002 at 02:55 PM. |
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