10-08-2001, 09:56 AM | #21 |
Elf Lord
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I agree with Inoldonil. And look at all the replys in this topic, she knows how to get a conversation going. But, I don't think that any of the male characters were "romantically involved".
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10-08-2001, 06:56 PM | #22 |
Elven Warrior
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sorry, but I have little tolerance for immaturity
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10-08-2001, 07:05 PM | #23 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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10-08-2001, 11:55 PM | #24 |
Elf Lord
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I thought Play Girl's post was humorous, and typical for coming from an 18 year old (so her profile makes her, not twelve). I do not use the word 'typical' in a bad way.
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10-09-2001, 12:01 AM | #25 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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10-09-2001, 01:52 AM | #26 |
Elven Warrior
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I don't think I ever got the innuendo upon first reading, but then I tend not to think that way. Also, I was sort of raised on the animated versions from an age when I didn't even know there was such a thing as homosexuality. But I can see where someone would get that I guess. I also don't think it's likely due to Tolkien's being Christian. Also, to anyone who thinks the concept is immature... that kind of thinking permeates a lot of modern movies, tv shows and other parts of our culture. Tolkien was a product of his culture, and Play Girl is a product of hers.
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10-09-2001, 12:09 PM | #28 |
Elven Warrior
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*decides to take a novel aproach*
PlayGirl, how old are you? Although I don't know for sure what Tolkiens thoughts on homosexuality where, I think we can safely assume that the chances make him opposed to it. Several people have chalenged others (hey, I'm too lazy to go back and look at screen names!) to show them that Tolkien was opposed to homosexuality. But they have not been able to show anything that shows he thought of homosexuals in a good light. But, given that he beleived in the Bible, and that Romans 1 makes clear what the Bible says about homosexuals, I would say that Tolkien was not likely to put homosexuals characters in the role of his main characters. As for what you should read next, by all means read the Sim! It's harder to read than LOTR because it's more of a history book than a story, but it is VERY interesting! LOTR will mean alot more the next time you read it too.
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10-09-2001, 12:45 PM | #29 |
The man
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My thoughts on Tolkien's views regarding homosexuality are based on Carpenter's authorized biography. YOu should read it Inoldonil, it's quite good. Also, that quote is from the Bible! Where have you been?
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10-09-2001, 04:47 PM | #30 | |
Elven Warrior
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A busy gardener
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10-09-2001, 05:57 PM | #31 |
Elven Warrior
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okay, 12 years old, I would understand her immaturaty. 16? well I considering I am only 15 I would expect better.
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"When evil people come to destroy me, when my enemies and foes attack me, they will stumble and fall. Though a mighty army surrounds me, my heart will know no fear." -Psalms 27:2-3 -Dare you venture into Gollum's Lair? JESUS LIVES! |
10-09-2001, 10:45 PM | #32 | |
Elf Lord
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Varda, I don't think it's likely because the notion is ridiculous based on so many things (though Play Girl's post made me laugh in a good way and I think you are all riled up about nothing). As for Tolkien not making his characters gay because he was a Christian, I can only say that there are gay Christians, and Christians who do not believe gays are going to Hell (not to mention Christians that do not believe in a literal Hell anyway). I am in fact a Christian who believes God loves everyone, whether you're straight, gay, black, white, blue or something else (nor do I think less of you if you are an agnostic or an Atheist, please don't think I'm trying to exclude or attack anyone with this controversial post). Call me crazy.
Perhaps I should also say that I don't doubt there are gay people who visit this board frequently. I do not want them to be reminded here that they are of an oppressed minority. Elsewhere there is evidence enough, unfortunately. Actually (I just read the lurker's post) I am afraid this could turn into a religious debate (read: flame war), and I don't want to contribute to that. Let's not get into the Bible, what it says and how we should interpret it for our own sake. Quote:
People, Play Girl is a teenager, and a normal one. A normal teenager who was bringing up an honest subject. She felt the story implied Sam and Frodo were gay, she was being funny about it (I thought), we all know they're not, it doesn't matter, end of story. Let's not tear eachother's heads off. I almost did just now, before I caught myself.
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10-10-2001, 12:14 AM | #33 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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It's not a big deal.
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10-10-2001, 01:15 PM | #34 |
Elven Warrior
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"As for Tolkien not making his characters gay because he was a Christian, I can only say that there are gay Christians, and Christians who do not believe gays are going to Hell"
I often wonder about people who say that gays are going to hell, because it show an EXTREME lack of understanding as to what Christinanity and Salvation are all about and how it works. I will not hide the fact that I consider (based on my reading of the Bible) homosexuality to be a sin, but it is in no way worse than any other sin. There are not levels of sin, there is just sin. "Actually (I just read the lurker's post) I am afraid this could turn into a religious debate (read: flame war), and I don't want to contribute to that. Let's not get into the Bible, what it says and how we should interpret it for our own sake." Well, if nobody else is interested, then we can just avoid that subject. For myself I enjoy debating and talking with people of differant beliefs than my own that I have a tendancy to turn every subject into a debate. My natural reaction to seeing a post with which I disagree is to chalange it, not realizing that not everyone shares my love of disagreing with people. Anyway, I'd better quit babbling and allow you to do something a little more worthwhile than reading the ramblings of a teenager (attempting) to explain the strange and totally baffling thought patterns (?) of his twisted and (currently) rather bored mind.
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10-10-2001, 05:09 PM | #35 |
Elf Lord
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I should have deleted everything in my post save the conclusion, really.
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10-10-2001, 06:01 PM | #36 |
Radically Tolkienited
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Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+><
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No text up here
Well we also have to remember that back in Tolkiens day even THINKING about being gay was shameful, and in the Middle Ages(in which time LOTR takes place.)it was considered to go hand in hand with witchcraft and the penalty for witchcraft was death, so I dont doubt Tolkien was against homosexual couples. And Play Girl I say this with all respect. I am a teen girl as well, but never once did I think Sam and Frodo were homosexual, so I think you're statement of I am a teen girl is totally and absolutley mute.
Sam ps. I will be back It's just a time limit that stops me from posting more.
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10-10-2001, 06:12 PM | #37 |
Best Ex-Administrator ever
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I always thought you were male Samwise, judging from the name.
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10-10-2001, 06:38 PM | #38 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
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I propose we drop the whole argument about homosexuality, and leave Play Girl (who has done nothing wrong) to post in peace!
The LR does not take place in the Middle Ages, it's supposed to be set in an imaginary time about 6,000 years ago.
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10-10-2001, 10:42 PM | #39 |
Entwife
Join Date: Oct 1999
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I always thought that Sam was a guy too until I read what she posted about Frodo/Wood's eyes in the "i luv Frodo" thread in LOTR Movies.
I was well into my 20's when I first read LOTR and I have to admit that Sam's behavior towards Frodo reminded me of a homosexual relationship. In fact the first instance that I came across (don't even remember now what it was) caused me to go, "hey, what the.." It makes no matter whether you are a teenaged girl or not...or a girl at all...there is nothing wrong with making a connection, even if it is a futile one. The human mind likes to run away sometimes....simple as that. Even bringing up the idea in a thread is not shameful when done in a harmless way which I feel she did, not to mention that it has given us all something different to talk about. |
10-10-2001, 11:16 PM | #40 |
Elven Warrior
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Samwise had 13 kids!!! Woooo...... Sam & Rosie, a very passionate couple. I had a Chemistry teacher who was one of 12 once.
If 13 kids is typical for Hobbits, how come Middle-Earth isn't jam-packed with them, so the 4th Age would be the "Dominion of Men and Halflings"? |
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