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#21 | |
The Elvish Temptress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 3,055
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Quote:
We've been wondering about that already but I didn't know (gosh, bad general education) If so, it is really sad because I also think that they should have joined together.
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What I am and what I would are as secret as maidenhead. |
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#22 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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Er.. yes. (Now you're making me doubt myself
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We are not things. |
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#23 | |
Spammer of the Happy Thread
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 3,512
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Quote:
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"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. " - C. Sagan My (photography) website My Flickr page |
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#24 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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I thought cyprus didn't join because of the division. I know Malta joined - but I thought that Cyrprus didn't.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#25 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
God forbig the UK should be equal to other nations. I'm sort of curious though - when the EU does develop into the United States of Europe - because that is the road it is going down - where will you go? Maybe you should come to the US and live in the country that is the most powerful in the world. ![]()
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#26 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
I would be interested to know what they plan to do regarding translaters. It's expected that over a billion dollars is just going to go to paying translaters. it's being recommended to only have 5 official languages in Europe now - to cut down on the cost. I think the languages were going to be - English, French, German, Italian and Spanish.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#27 |
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Narnia
Posts: 1,656
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For info on the Cyprus problem...
Click this. Click me! Click me! No no! Me first! I think the Cyprus in the EU is technically united, but the bad feelings are on the Turkish side. Turkish Cyprus didn't really want to become part of the EU. The EU and Greek Cyprus are working to promote economic development in northern (Turkish) Cyprus, and friendliness between the two areas.
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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#28 | |
Cyber Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Left of Rock, Right of Hard Place
Posts: 986
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Quote:
EU does not recognize the occupation of Northern Cyprus. (Northern Cyprus, IIFC is only recognized by Turkey.) This Recognition by the EU is having an effect on the occupied territory. I am looking for sources and will provide links when found.
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) |
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#29 |
Cyber Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Left of Rock, Right of Hard Place
Posts: 986
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BBC News
EU pledges aid for Turkish Cyprus The EU has pledged to release almost 260m euros (£170m) to Turkish Cypriots, following their approval of a UN plan to reunify the island. The money is aimed at ending the economic isolation of Northern Cyprus after years of sanctions. The UN plan was accepted by 65% of Turkish Cypriots, but Greek rejection means it cannot come into force. Turkish Cypriot PM Mehmet Ali Talat has meanwhile formally asked the EU to freeze Greek Cypriot membership. Mr Talat was due in Brussels on Monday for talks with enlargement commissioner Guenter Verheugen, who has already bitterly criticised the Greek Cypriot handling of the peace process. Mr Verheugen said the EU would work with the Turkish Cypriot authorities to boost the economy but this did not mean that the north would be recognised as a separate state. "I strongly reject the idea that co-operation is recognition in the sense of international law," he said. Mr Talat is also likely to travel to Washington in the coming days, officials said. Economic sanctions have been in force for years, leaving many Turkish Cypriots with a low standard of living. The government will now press for the right to sell goods direct to Europe, and for direct flights to be resumed. Details of Mr Talat's bid to freeze Cypriot membership were carried by Turkish Cypriot news agency Tak. It said Mr Talat had written to Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern, asking for membership to be suspended until the island could join as one. "The Turkish people of the north, where EU laws will not apply, have done their best for a solution, whereas the south has not done so," Tak quoted him as saying. Turkish Cypriot support for the peace plan was blocked by Greek rejection "Therefore in order not to reward the Greek Cypriots, we asked that EU laws not be applied to the south until there is a solution, and the island enters the EU as a whole. "In other words ... membership should be frozen." Cyprus joins the EU on 1 May along with nine other states. EU officials are angry that the divisions have not been overcome. "We're all profoundly disappointed that this historic opportunity has been lost," EU External Relations Commissioner Chris Patten said. "I don't think the leadership of the Greek Cypriot community have behaved well, to put it mildly - gagging (European) commissioners' attempts to speak in the community and so on." The island has been divided since 1974, when Turkish troops invaded in response to a short-lived coup by Greek Cypriots.
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) |
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#30 |
Cyber Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Left of Rock, Right of Hard Place
Posts: 986
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BBC: Q&A: Cyprus peace process
Q&A: Cyprus peace process UN Secretary General Kofi Annan's Cyprus peace plan was put to the vote in Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities on 24 April. The Turkish Cypriots accepted the plan but it was thrown out by the Greek Cypriot side. BBC News Online answers key questions about the process. Why did the Greek Cypriots reject the plan? Most of the population felt the plan gave too many concessions to the Turkish side. In particular they were angry that not all Greek Cypriot refugees would have got their homes back, that Turkish troops were being allowed to stay on the island indefinitely and that Turkish settlers were also being allowed to stay. What about the Turkish Cypriots? They ignored the advice of their veteran leader Rauf Denktash and voted to accept the plan. Many people wanted the benefits that reunification would have brought, and thought the plan represented a fair compromise between the conflicting demands of the two communities. What does the outcome mean? Cyprus stays divided into Greek and Turkish sectors for the foreseeable future. It could be a long time before the international community is prepared to take another stab at solving the problem. And when the island joins the EU on 1 May, only Greek Cypriots will get the benefits and responsibilities of being in the club. Membership is suspended in the Turkish Cypriot area, despite the "yes" vote, in line with an earlier decision that the north could only join if the island was reunited. Doesn't that seem unfair? The Turkish Cypriots certainly think it's unfair, and the European Union is looking at ways of easing long-standing sanctions against the breakaway zone, to help improve living conditions for northern Cypriots. Some critics say a divided Cyprus should never have been allowed EU membership, as it paved the way for the paradoxical outcome of the pro-plan Turkish community staying on the outside while the anti-plan Greek population get in. The Greek Cypriots will also get only a lukewarm welcome into the EU. The European Enlargement Commissioner has strongly criticised the government for its handling of the referendum campaign. Who had agreed the peace plan put to the voters? No deal was reached between the island's leaders on the shape of the plan. Turkish Cypriot leader Rauf Denktash did not even attend the final round of talks in Switzerland. But both sides had already given Mr Annan permission to "fill in the blanks" - that is, to make his own proposals on the elements they could not agree on. So that is what he did - arguing that the plan he put to the people was a compromise between the wishes of the Greek Cypriots, the Turkish Cypriots and the Greek and Turkish governments. None of them got all they wanted, but Mr Annan insisted he had tried to balance their conflicting demands. Mr Annan urged voters to see the plan as the best chance for peace in a generation. How did the peace process get this far? Cyprus' impending entry into the EU created a fresh momentum for progress. Mr Annan, who was behind an unsuccessful peace drive in 2003, decided to have another go. He invited Greek and Turkish Cypriot leaders to New York in February 2004 to see if talks could be restarted. Several days of intensive discussions yielded what he had hoped for: an agreement that if the leaders could not agree on the final shape of the plan, he would write it himself. Talks involving the Cypriot communities and then the Greek and Turkish government indeed failed to reach a deal, so in the end Mr Annan "filled in the blanks" himself as anticipated. What was in the peace plan? The idea was to reunite Cyprus formally, but run it as two separate Swiss-style cantons for most practical purposes. The deal would have meant the Turkish community giving up some of the land it held and many - but not all - Greek Cypriots returning to the homes they had to flee in the 1970s. The largely symbolic presidency of the united Cyprus would have switched back and forth between the two communities and large-scale demilitarisation would have taken place, although Turkey was being allowed to maintain a military presence on the island indefinitely. Mr Annan's plan included a reduction in land held by Turkish Cypriots to 29%. The number of Greek Cypriots allowed to return to their homes would not have been allowed to exceed 18% of the Turkish Cypriot population - allowing tens of thousands back but leaving tens of thousands more permanently displaced. How has life already changed on the island? Most Cypriots had the first chance to see the other side of the divide after April 2003, when travel restrictions were eased after 29 years of total division. Since then, thousands have crossed the border daily, and emotional meetings between former friends and neighbours have helped overcome some of the prejudices. How long has the island been divided? Cyprus has been partitioned since 1974, when a Greek-inspired coup prompted a Turkish invasion of the northern third of the island. Thousands of people were displaced from their homes and many have never returned. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus was declared in 1983, but has never been recognised by any country other than Turkey. Since 1974 Greek and Turkish Cypriots have been living separately, divided by a so-called "green line", patrolled by the United Nations. More than 30,000 Turkish troops are still stationed on the island and Nicosia remains Europe's last divided capital.
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) Last edited by mithrand1r : 05-02-2004 at 11:41 PM. |
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#31 | |
Cyber Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Left of Rock, Right of Hard Place
Posts: 986
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Below is from an email a freind from Cyprus emailed to me.
Quote:
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) |
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#32 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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So if I read these articles right, Cyprus joined as a whole but only in name. Only the Greek side will get the benefits of membership. Sounds like a typical European Union-construction.
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We are not things. |
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#33 |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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Personally I'm glad these countries are joining. They deserve to enjoy the benefits of European membership if they want to, and hopefully a bit of variable geometry will bring the EU down to earth a little.
I wonder how far east the EU will go next though ![]() ![]()
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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#34 | |
Spammer of the Happy Thread
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 3,512
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Quote:
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"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. " - C. Sagan My (photography) website My Flickr page Last edited by Nerdanel : 05-03-2004 at 04:03 PM. |
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#35 |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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You never know
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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#36 |
The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
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Well the Turkey issue is something of a problem vis-a-vis the old Islamic Extremism problem. Desires from many nations for the constitution to recognise the Christianity of Europe, and the fear that Europe will become a United States has certainly caused a few people of the old 'let's blow people up' school of thought to be afraid that there will be two super powers 'after them' not just one.
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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#37 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Now we've got 'em, let's deprive 'em of sovereignty!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...9849_1,00.html Pardon my sarcasm, but "Rule, Brittania, rule!"
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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#38 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and no right of appeal? What do you EU-member-country Mooters think about this?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! ![]() "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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#39 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Oops, double post.
To make use of this space... *waves Czech flag* Yay Czech Republic. ![]()
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 09-15-2005 at 02:49 AM. |
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#40 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Wow. I'm not a member of an EU nation, but I think they're taking the trade alliance too far with this. Now, it makes a lot of sense that you have to have a certain, acceptable level of human rights in order to join. But "harmonising criminal law across Europe" suggests the EU wants to be more than a trade alliance. So when does an alliance become a nation?
It doesn't seem as though Europe is one nation. Having been there, there's huge cultural and social differences in the countries I visited (some more than others). But hamonising criminal law... I mean, all of the Canadian provinces don't necessarily have the same criminal laws. (Such as at what age someone is no longer a minor.)
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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