09-26-2005, 11:01 PM | #341 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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previous post - appear!
*cancels magic invisibility post spell*
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-26-2005, 11:41 PM | #342 |
Word Santa Claus
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Your spell worked
The difference is that between betting that a specific number will come up on a roulette wheel or that A number (ANY number) will come up. We know A number will come up, because of the nature of the wheel. Because of environmental factors that have been observed, the odds of an ape-like creature, or a cat, evolving into SOMETHING over time is similarly high. But that a specific number (say, 5) will come up is relatively unlikely, just as the chance that an ape-like creature will become specifically a human as we know it, or that a cat will become a dog, is SPECIFICALLY unlikely. Put another way, that evolution would come out exactly as it has is incredibly unlikely - but so is any other SPECIFIC result of evolution. But that evolution would produce SOMETHING is extremely likely. And I am sure a cat will eventually evolve into something else. The odds that that something else will be specifically a dog, however, are infinitesimal. Man descended from ape-like creatures via a similarly stupendous chain of events - but that didn't have a specific end in view. Evolution does not have ends in mind. We only think of this as how it "must be" or was "destined" because it is how it randomly ended up. I hope that makes the difference clear.
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09-26-2005, 11:59 PM | #343 | |
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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09-27-2005, 06:56 AM | #344 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Quote:
Actually most members don't even know we have rules. I know it sounds illogical but it's true. Most just join and post and never 'explore' the link or the posted stickies about rules. Lastly, to quote Tony Randall of The Odd Couple: When you assume, you make an ass of u and me. ass/u/me.
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10-02-2005, 11:17 PM | #345 |
of the House of Fëanor
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off topic
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10-03-2005, 02:38 AM | #346 | ||
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About the whole cat evolving into a dog thing... you can say a cat won't evolve into a dog without violating the Theory of Evolution (ToE). Why? Because according to ToE evolution takes place due to random mutation and selection over time. A cat can't evolve into a dog because cats and dogs already exist now.
A cat could evolve into a dog-like creature, it could even evolve into an animal that looks and behaves exactly like today's dog. This would occur some time in the future, when dogs have either evolved, not evolved, or died out. By saying that cats could evolve into dogs, you would be saying that cats would evolve into the same species as dogs, that they would merge. Well, no. That's like saying your grandson could be your brother. Maybe I misunderstood where you were going with that question R*an, but I don't see the point of it.
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10-03-2005, 12:24 PM | #347 |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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Cat->Dog is a hyperbole...
Of course, it's along the same lines as dinosaur->bird... Neither of which has actually been observed happening. It is possible that "intermediate forms" are results of evolution...or maybe they are results of "niche specialization" a la ID...
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
10-03-2005, 12:46 PM | #348 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-03-2005, 01:25 PM | #349 | ||
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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10-03-2005, 01:25 PM | #350 |
Word Santa Claus
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Cat -> dog is not the same as dinosaur -> bird, because dinosaur -> bird is an older form going to a newer form, while cat -> dog is one form going to another contemporary form. It would be like dinosaur -> giant crocodile.
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10-03-2005, 02:14 PM | #351 | ||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
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it is all somewhat amusing when you think about it for very long
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10-03-2005, 02:29 PM | #352 | |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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Quote:
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
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10-03-2005, 02:43 PM | #353 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-03-2005, 06:44 PM | #354 |
Word Santa Claus
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You don't throw out science because a better theory MIGHT come along... you only throw it out (or, at least, discount it) because a better one HAS come along. Spontaneous generation was a legitimate theory a long time ago... it is not now. Evolution is legitimate now, and will continue to be until a more comprehensive theory arrives.
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10-03-2005, 07:54 PM | #355 |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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Which is, you admit, possible. Here's something to think about: in the days of spontaneous generation, it was the widely accepted view, and it took a few radical scientists, whose beliefs were widely despised, to change it. Is it possible that the IDers are the contemporary "radical scientists" who have it figured out?
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
10-03-2005, 08:43 PM | #356 |
Quasi Evil
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Well theyd need to actually show evidence for what they believe for anyone to actually see if their ideas match what can be studied. Instead they tend to just try to poke holes in evolution by saying stuff like well life is too complex.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
10-03-2005, 08:57 PM | #357 |
Word Santa Claus
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What IR said is basically right. That, and ID is an idea that's been around for a LONG time... it isn't really new.
And it isn't really testable. A nice article about that http://www.slate.com/id/2127054/
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10-03-2005, 11:21 PM | #358 |
Hobbit
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3 spine sticklebax
If a 3 spine stickleback had a brain larger than a wee pebble, Im sure it would tell you all how proud it is to hear such a bubbly dialogue on this diabolical subject. Sticklebacks with 3 spines (dont go to church) have evolved in thier dead end street like ponds to grow fancy spines from which they deter predators from eating them, while other no spine sticklebax may be chomped down by even the slowest froggie. The spines developed over a very short time comparitvely to wings on bi pedal reptiles... some 5000 years vs 5 million or so. Ask Dr Gould, not Dr Phil.
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10-04-2005, 09:06 AM | #359 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Quote:
if this creator can ever be observed, maybe... but 'till then, it aint science
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-04-2005, 11:38 AM | #360 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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..what do you think those UFO's are!
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