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12-05-2003, 06:08 PM | #21 |
High King of Númenórë
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This thread is a joke too. It was only sparked on the fact that BB hasn't read the books (are we even sure he hasn't?). Again, even with every comment about "those who like the books" it seems like THOSE OF US WHO DO LIKE BOTH THE BOOKS AND THE MOVIES, are so easily forgotten and sh1t on. This thread is made out and sounds like if you liked the books you should hate the movies.
I guess those of us are loved the books and then liked the movies are nothing but movie lovers who "may have read the books" or "didn't read the books correctly"
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen Last edited by Dúnedain : 12-05-2003 at 06:09 PM. |
12-05-2003, 06:11 PM | #22 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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12-05-2003, 06:14 PM | #23 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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As for BB reading the books - I have asked him repeatedly. He constantly tries to post quotes or things that happened in the books and repeatedly gets things wrong. No he has NOT read the books. Quote:
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12-05-2003, 06:17 PM | #24 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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If you have problem with the thread - then take it up with the admins. It is you guys who keep making inflamitory comments.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 12-05-2003 at 06:19 PM. |
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12-05-2003, 06:19 PM | #25 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
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12-05-2003, 08:35 PM | #26 | |
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In response to your original question, JD: yes, anyone who sees the movie and likes the movie should read the books. I read the books, loved them... went out and read The Sil... read them all again and again... saw the movies and was like... ???? eh? ???? Why would anyone sink this much money into a movie adaptation of a great work of literature and then mess it up so badly? What was he thinking? |
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12-05-2003, 09:11 PM | #27 | |
Cyber Elf Lord
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Re: Should movie fans read the books?
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A person does not need to read the book to discuss the quality of a movie. If they want to intelligently discuss about what the movie did with regards to the book, then I say yes they should read the book and be familiar with the book. A2. If you wish to judge how the films were as an adaptation of the book, you need to read the book. If you wish to judge how the films were as a movie entity only, then you do not need to read the books. Reading the books may/may not assist in judging the film from a purely cinematic/movie point of view. (for example: the ents in TT. From the movies only, the Ents appear to be inconsistent. They state that they are not hasty, yet they wind up making a hasty decision. From the books we know the Ents will attack Isengard and why they will attack Isengard.) Q3. They are psychic or talk to psychic friends. Otherwise I do not know.
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) Last edited by mithrand1r : 12-05-2003 at 09:13 PM. |
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12-06-2003, 03:24 AM | #28 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Littleton, CO
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Yes.
[How's that for non-confrontational?]
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. |
12-06-2003, 02:16 PM | #29 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
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Should people read Phillip K. Dick's books before they say that Bladerunner is one of the best science fiction movies of all time? Will these people read Timeline before judging the movie?
What's good for Tolkien should be good for PKD or Crichton. But someone who hasn't read PKD just says, it's not the same... and that's fine because Tolkien is... what... some sort of superhuman writer who... no no no... To try to use reason to understand this is a waste of time. May I ask another fool question? Should you read The Once and Future King before watching Camelot? Have you? Do you really think Tolkien is so much better than T.H. White that he should get special treatment? Or are you just making life (and reading books) easier for yourself by holding JRRT up as the ultimate writer so you don't have to read these other people? Because if you would make the effort to read these other authors you might realize that they are all brilliant writers, too. But I don't think a person should have to read any book in relation to any movie. Myself, I almost always read the books first.
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cya |
12-06-2003, 03:00 PM | #30 | |
Cyber Elf Lord
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It is a bit sad what happened to PKD. At least his family will be able to enjoy some of the fruits of his labor. I have read T.H. White (school assignment) and I have not seen Camelot. If someone wishes to intelligently discuss how well a movie is adapted from a book they should read the book (and of course see the movie ) in question. To decide if a movie is good or not, one does not need to read the book.
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) |
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12-06-2003, 03:01 PM | #31 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lawrence, Kansas, USA
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Well, reading PKD should be required by law
I agree with Elfhelm--no one "should" have to read the book, or any book that has been the basis for a film. It's still possible to discuss and judge the qualities of a film because a film is not a book. Now, if one wants to judge the interpretation of a film, then obviously one needs to do some reading. However, I don't feel the quality of interpretation has anything to do with the quality of the film itself. Plenty of bad films have faithfully interpreted the source material, and plenty of great movies have very little resemblance to it.
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A citizen runs to the fire department yelling that he's spotted a roaring blaze from his car. "WHERE IS IT?" the fire department asks, pen ready. "It rises like some brooding , glaring trail of cosmic fury from- " "WHERE? WHERE?" "Oh. Well, it blazes up from a crimson-sheathed visage brooding darkly above the haunted towers of impotent indignity which, like melons hovering unhappily over lifetimes of empty meaning which-" "THE ADDRESS!" "Oh. Oh, I didn't notice. But look for a brooding, glaring trail of cosmic fury rising from a crimson-sheathed visage-" They lead him back to his car, and send him on. -- Philip K. Dick "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -- Diderot |
12-06-2003, 04:19 PM | #32 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Yes their are other great authors out there. But the books and movies you mentioned - all have different tittles. Unlike Lord of the Rings - which Jackson kept the title. A more appropriate title for the movies would probably have been "The King's Destiny" or even "War of the Ring" because all of the lore that Lord of the Rings contained has been lost in the action sequences. My comment regarding should someone read the books anyway - deals strickly with them making comments on the adaptation from books to movie and whether they could have been better. My feeling is they could have been a thousand times better and closer to the books and still have been blockbusters. I also think without many of the changes jackson made - they would truly have been deserving of the best picture nomenation. As they stand they are purely action flicks (and yes - I have said it again)., but even Primetime called them action movies. By the way - on a closed the thread you asked for a better fantasy film and that would be Excalibur. It isn't dumbed down for the audience. It doesn't have cheap laughs, it doesn't have endless action. And I have read Mort d'Arthur which the movie is based on.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-06-2003, 05:21 PM | #33 | |
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Personally, I don't see how anyone could NOT have read JRRT. I read The Hobbit in high school (or 8th grade, not sure), and then FotR the year after. They were required reading, and I'm grateful for that. The first exposure to JRRT's beautiful words transported me to his world and made me hunger for more. (Though, it is apparent that that is not so for everyone.) I think you also need to remember that this is a Tolkien message board. Not a Michael Crichton message board. (However, Timeline is on my list to read.) |
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12-06-2003, 05:26 PM | #34 | ||
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12-06-2003, 09:54 PM | #35 |
Elven Warrior
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it's clear that if you want to intelligently be able to look at the movies as adaptations, you need to have read the books. and if your simply looking at them as movies... you need no background with the novels to form an opinion.
_____________________________ Originally posted by jerseydevil This is about whether movie fans can really appreciate and understand Middle Earth without having read the books. _____________________________ hmm, well, they'll get a nice feel for it. and i'm sure people have been spurred to read the books after seeing the movies... *including myself.* i saw FOTR when it was released and then picked up the books and had finished them by the summer before TTT. my opinion wasn't entirely changed after reading LOTR... i see i love the books, but the movies aren't entirely bad either, in my opinion. i feel you just get so much more detail and involvement when you sit down and read a novel rather than just watch a movie based on it. so to sum it all up... yes, movie fans should go out, buy the books, sit down and read them (if they haven't already). you get a better feel for the story as a whole, and you're able to discuss the movies looking at them on several different levels. i think this is one of the longest posts i've ever made...
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