The Singers Thread

[Voronwen]

Welcome to the Singers' Thread, Pip! Yes, this thread was my idea, for good or ill! I just thought that rather than rambling on taking up space on the Classical Music thread, that Tessar and i, and anyone else who might like to join us, could come over here and discuss the matters that concern classical singers. But other types of singers are welcome, too - we can all learn something from one another!

Originally Posted by Tessar

Some day I would love to be a voice teacher, but I wont do it unless I think I can be a great teacher. I hope I can be, but I will never become one of those people who only goes into teaching because they can't sing any more.

I completely agree with everything you've said. I can't count how many times people have told me, "You really should teach!" But i don't feel that teaching is my gift. Unless i could be one of the really good voice teachers, i would rather not teach at all. And i don't honestly feel as if i have the right background to be that. So i feel that it's only right to just not go there at all. I also agree that a person has to be called to teaching and not just do it because for whatever reason they're not out there singing anymore, etc.

I wonder if having a breakthrough to solidify the E will have any other effects on your range or general singing.

I've been there before, actually. What it requires of me is that i use an extremely high placement, with NO involvement from the other registers whatsoever. It's placed so high that it feels like there's a beam of light coming out of the front of my forehead. That little point on the forehead practically buzzes. But the problem with this is that, for all that i am getting the note (yay!), i think it may be simply a whistletone. I don't really think it's part of my "real" range, at least not anymore. Most sopranos in their late teens and early 20s have easy access to the extreme stratosphere by virtue of very young and flexible vocal cords (think of little kids screaming), and i was one of them - but usually with physical maturity and as the voice becomes better balanced, a singer who is not meant to be a coloratura eventually loses that access. True coloraturas will keep those notes as part of their working range well into their 40s and beyond, whether their voices are lighter (ie. Dessay) or heavier (Sills, June Anderson, Luciana Serra, etc), but a lyric soprano will eventually lose them (you don't hear Fleming hitting the E6's anymore, either, though she does use the occasional Eb) and yet gain other special qualities.

I think in my case i felt that because it's something that i started out having, that i had to work desperately in order to hold on to it, at all costs - even going into whistletone in order to keep it (but this was terribly unwise, as vocal transitions are something we need to simply work with and accept). Why do i feel that it's whistletone? Because it is so disconnected from the rest of my voice. Also, the more i work with it (what i now call my 'false' extension - E6, F6, etc...), the effect it has on the rest of my range is an imbalancing one. By that i mean, i wind up feeling less connection overall between my registers, weakness or trouble in places i never felt it before, etc. It ends with me going back to basics for a while to reallign my voice. When my voice is alligned and in well-working order, my highest "real" note is an Eb6. My instinct tells me that pushing myself beyond that might not be entirely healthy for my voice, so i have been listening to that.

Believe me i had spent literally *years* wondering whether it was a fault of my own ("I should be trying harder!"), or my teacher's (several teachers later...), etc, wondering whether i was simply missing something that would suddenly make everything click and i'd have a whole new world of repertoire to have fun with. But alas, no. With time, however, having the highest note humanly possible was not so important to me anymore. Eventually i learned that it's the whole voice that matters - not whether or not i could sing notes that only dogs could hear.

What's cute is that I know a lyric soprano who gave me some lessons, and she told me that when she was young she loved to sing the A5. Now she loves to sing the G5 (she was 45 at the time). According to her husband, her voice was annoying when she was young! He said her sound lost a lot of the 'over bright' character that annoyed him as she went into her 30's, and her voice is still very brilliant and shimmers, but there's also a lovely mature color to it now.

She actually does sound a LOT like me (though i am nowhere near 45 yet, so we'll see whether i end up preferring the G over the A in the future... for now, yes, i am all about that A! ). When i was in my 20s, my voice had that exceptionally bright sound that you're talking about, which teachers had told me was a characteristic of a young soprano. Now in my 30s i have had the exact same change she has had - there is now that more mature quality that is starting to come in. My teacher calls it a certain "warmth". Even my husband, who is not a trained singer, has noticed a change in my sound, which he called "fuller and more assured" after hearing me sing 'Come Unto Him' from Messiah on Christmas eve (and i don't have a score in front of me, but i don't think this aria goes any higher than the G). Most people still consider it a 'bright' voice, but it has mellowed out some.

The cost, however, of gaining this new dimension to my sound, was the loss of the high E's and F's.

Her story was a bit like yours, actually... she really cautioned me not to push myself too hard for high notes. When she was studying in the conservatory the big thing was that F6, and apparently some days she could push herself up to the A6, but once she got out of school she realized she really didn't need those notes.

Is she my long-lost twin or something? I *never* had an A6, but i did have a G6 ... on some days i can still touch it on a lip-trill! But i can only think of one piece that actually requires a G6 - Mozart's concert aria, Popoli di Tessaglia. While i would LOVE to be able to sing that, i realize that there is much more to life as a soprano than Queen of the Night and the handful of arias written for Aloysia Weber Lange

Don't get me wrong - I can on some days still get through Vorrei spiegarvi, o Dio!, which a teacher once handed to me and said, "This is perfect for your temperament." It may be, but i can't sustain a repertoire filled with high E's, especially since my voice has been filling out some.

Here's my angle: If you are physically capable of singing Song to the Moon (which I absolutely adore) then why not? So you'll never perform the role. What about recitals? Just because you can't sing something under one situation (i.e. standing behind a full orchestra in a large opera house) why should you be prevented from singing it in a more optimal setting? Like with a minimal orchestration, or a piano, or with slight amplification, or any other dozen possibilities. It's different if the song doesn't sound good in your voice. Then I could understand not learning it. But if it does sound good, then why not?

I have to agree with you. I've also had several coaches, etc, hear me and immediately say, "You NEED to sing Depuis le Jour!". Indeed, i've worked on that aria and, while it's a lighter sound than most people are used to hearing, it fits my voice very well. Yet, this is another aria that comes with huge orchestration. People have also often suggested the Che il bel sogno di Doretta from Puccini's La Rondine. Believe me when i say, i love these arias! But as with the Song to the Moon (talk about being suited to my temperament! ), it's the same story - these "bigger" arias that require the floated high notes make people want to assign them to a lighter voice, but in reality the roles they come from are NOT light. The full orchestration would kill me!

I think sometimes people get too caught up in this cycle of believing in an idealistic setting for an aria.

I think you're right. There's so much of this that has to do with what has become generally accepted performance practice.

Take Renee Fleming. I'm sure she would never actually play the role of Candeed, but she sings a gorgeous "Glitter and Be Gay." But a lot of people say that she should never sing that piece because the role isn't right for her voice.

Exactly - she did a beautiful job with it!

I think, too, what concerns voice teachers is that they are worried that the student will go for a "bigger" sound than their voice should be making, just to fit the generally accepted idea of what these arias should sound like. The way around this though, is to sing these arias in your OWN voice. As long as the singer stays within what constitutes healthy singing for their own instrument, and doesn't "push" for a bigger sound, they'll be alright. It's when they push to try to conform to the generally accepted sound for a role, or to be heard over the orchestration, that it can lead to serious vocal problems.

I think there's a fine line between honoring the music and attempting to keep music in a glass prison. Of course that once again falls under the category of personal taste.

Indeed. I think there is too much of this going on today. If you look back at the careers of singers from 50 years ago, they sang everything they could sing healthfully. There wasn't so much emphasis on which "kind" of voice fits which role.

But now, yes, back to vowels...

But what my teacher thinks, and I agree with, is that you can use vowels to create the exact same effect. He showed me how different vowels have different 'resonances'... for instance 'ah' is a very bright vowel and actually sounds like a slightly higher pitch than 'aw' or 'auh' does. So coloring of the voice has just about everything to do with threading a darker or brighter vowel into the heart of whatever other vowel you're actually singing.

Yes, you can adjust these things with vowels. It's safer than doing the other things you mentioned, but yes, it is an advanced concept.

I am still far from being at a point where I can sing with good technique AND worry about advanced things like coloring my vowels excessively

Worry about the technique for now, other things like the vowels will fall into place via coachings. I can't tell you how many times i've had a coach or teacher have me pronounce a vowel very differently from my instinct within the context of a piece. For instance when i was first working on Pamina's aria, my teacher had me adjust the vowel on the word "herzen". The way i was pronouncing it was correct for German, but the way it was coming out in my voice was not as resonant as it could have been. She had me brighten the vowel, almost too much, had me get used to it that way, and then the following week we pulled back, almost to where i had started. She wanted me to get the feel of where the vowel was supposed to be resonating. I still keep a tiny hint of that overly-bright vowel in it, and it's much better than it was.

I'm really excited to be working with this guy. I feel like if I can stick with him and keep making progress he'll help me grow to be an actual artist and performer.

It does sound like you have a VERY good working relationship!

Self confidence is one thing, but I am very aware (and hopefully will always be) that even if you're incredible, and even if you experience great success, that doesn't make you the best. It means you're good, but it doesn't make you the best.

This is SO important to remember. Even the top-level pros are not perfect all the time. Even they have bad habits to work through, etc. Classical singing is such an exacting endeavor. We are never truly perfect. This is why even the Dessays and the Flemings of the world still have voice teachers.