What All Was Wrong with PJ's LOTR

[Jon S.]

Thanks for your response, Curufin - this is perhaps a good time to reemphasize explicitly what we would hope would be implicitly obvious that discussions like these are intended in a positive spirit of further enjoying Tolkien's works and being exposed to new and alternate viewpoints on them. You have been really cool throughout this thread in that respect, thanks again for it.

Now back to the substance.

A bit part of our differing viewpoints concerning the book and films, it seems to me, is that you interpret many changes in the movies as "drastically altering what Tolkien meant to express" that, to me, do not at all affect a drastic alteration.

Faramir is a perfect example. I agree with the author of the piece I referenced earlier that Faramir's essential nature did not change materially between the movie and the book. Rather, what changed were various circumstantial facts to which Faramir reacted. To me, those changes are in no way "drastic" relative to Tolkien's basic themes. What they are is cinematic.

Likewise with the Elves joining in at Helms Deep. To you, that change eviscerated your interpretation of that battle, as best as I can construe it from your posts here, as a or the defining moment when men assumed their ascendancy in ME and established their independence from the need for inter-racial alliances to defend themselves.

That's fine, if you want to interpret it that way. If everyone bet on the same horse, there wouldn't be horse races. Nor Entmoot threads. And both racing and forums would be the poorer for it.

But for me, I just don't buy your interpretation of Helms Deep. To me, a key theme of the LOTR book was, and will always be, to emphasize the good in when people of different races bury old emnities and join together, based on common values, to oppose evil.

That was a key theme of the decision at the council at Rivendell to establish the company of 9. It was a key theme in Tolkien describing elsewhere how dwarves, elves, and men all fought against Sauron and his forces in their own lands. This theme, to me, was buttressed, not undercut, when the elves arrived, in the movie, at Helms Deep.

It was also cool as s-! In fact, when I saw the movie (twice), the elves arrival got the biggest audience reaction in the entire film. Be honest now - it was the same when you saw the film too, wasn't it? That's because, whatever else one may say about PJ, the man knows how to make a movie.

There were numerous other references and scenes in the films that served, independent of Helms Deep, to reinforce the notion that the end of Sauron and the Ring meant the ascendancy of the race of man. This is why I repeat, for me, the glass is half full on the change there. I appreciate that, for you, the arrival of men at Helms Deep apparently negated the impact of these references and scenes.

Different strokes for different folks.