Why did the Ring betray Isildur?

[Gordis]

Ohh… another great old thread- my first one, indeed. I confess I haven’t re-read it now, partly because it is so long, but partly on purpose: to have a fresh view of the matter.

I think you are right, CAB (and Olmer), that the people MOST interested in Isildur’s death, VITALLY interested even, were those who had the other rings of power: Elrond, Galadriel, Cirdan, the 9 nazgul, maybe also the Dwarf-lords (though the latter were never really governed by the One – so I leave them out). It is just totally unrealistic to think that they would have waited idly for a new Ringlord to emerge and enslave them.

On one hand, we have the ambush on the East bank – led by “the grim servants of Barad-Dur(UT)�. Now can we be sure that there wasn’t a single Ringwraith among them? We know that some/most/all (??) of the nazgul fled East after the Fall of Barad-Dur - but in two years they might have returned. Alternatively, as we are never told about the nazgul during the fights of the Last Alliance, probably some have always been away from Mordor – preparing and leading reinforcements from the subject lands or prowling on the Alliance’s communication lines. Anyway, we are told that the orcs were drawn to the Ring – and if there were Ringwraiths in Mirkwood it gets so much easier to explain how they spotted the Ring. Also it might explain why the invisible Isildur chose to swim over (a rather perilous thing to attempt, specially at night) and not to run upstream or downstream or into the trees and hide.

On the other hand, we have an ambush on the West bank – because Isildur was slain near the West bank: his body was found there by Saruman, and Gollum found the Ring by the west bank, as he lived on the west bank near the Gladden river (see here: http://www.ititches.com/middleearth/index.html)
And this ambush is interesting. Think about it: west bank, right midway between Rivendell and Lorien, two years after the victory. Was it likely to find orcs there? Not at all likely, if you ask me, next to impossible even. Any orc would have long ago moved upriver a bit, crossed to the East bank at the “old Ford� and joined the Mirkwood company – or gone to hide in the caves of the Misty mountains. Much more likely was to find Elves on the west bank- namely Elrond and Galadriel and some of their people.

Originally Posted by CAB

I disagree with Olmer that the Elves attacked the men of Arnor themselves. Whether they could have hidden the signs of their involvement from the searchers that would eventually come, I can't say, but the Elves surely could not hide such an ambush from the Palantiri. Probably, Isildur's journey north was being tracked by his people through the Seeing Stones. ..To me, the best answer is that the Elves somehow "tipped off" a suitably large and well positioned orc force about the Arnoreans' march.

I agree with CAB. The first part- the fighting on the East bank- seems OK: happened as reported. It had a few surviving witnesses and the area was later examined not only by the Elves, but also by Men from surrounding areas and likely by Valandil’s mannish entourage from Rivendell. As for the Palantiri, (see my thread here: http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.ph...401#post598401) it is unknown if Isildur was followed via the Seeing Stones or not, but the Elves had to expect it – so they couldn’t have ambushed the 200-strong Dunedain party in plain daylight themselves and hope to get away with it.

But… they likely knew about the big orc force on the other bank and chose NOT to warn Isildur.

Let us go further. Isildur swam across the river. But did the Ring abandon Isildur or was he slain with the Ring on? If he was slain by Calaquendi Elves (like Galadriel, or Glorfindel, or Gildor and Co) or ring-wielders (like Elrond) then he might have been slain while invisible to mortal eyes, still wearing the Ring. But the Ring was later found separately from Isildur’s body, so those who slew him had to take off the Ring from his finger and throw it into the river. It is unlikely: very strange hiding place – so near the bank. Why not damp it in the middle of the river or better still throw it into the Sea (Orodruin being dormant)?
So, I believe this part is also correct: the Ring abandoned Isildur while he was approaching the west bank.

Why did the Ring choose this exact moment to slip off? Did it want to get lost in the River? Unlikely, and note that it didn’t slip in the middle of the river, but by the bank. The Ring had no senses of its own, IMO, it only processed the feelings of its wielder (for the explanations see here: http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.ph...400#post598400 ).

It must have slipped because Isildur saw someone/something awaiting him on the West bank – but what? Orcs? But how could Isildur, an inexperienced Ring-wielder, see the concealed orcs at night, while he was still in the hazy World of Shadow? See this quote about Sam:

But they marched up like a phantom company, grey distorted figures in a mist, only dreams of fear with pale flames in their hands.

And who is so very visible in the hazy world of Shadow? Nazgul, right, but also Calaquendi Elves:

With his last failing senses Frodo heard cries, and it seemed to him that he saw, beyond the Riders that hesitated on the shore, a shining figure of white light; and behind it ran small shadowy forms waving flames, that flared red in the grey mist that was falling over the world.

I guess Isildur saw Elves and was glad. The Ring “saw� them (through his eyes) and was not. It preferred to lie on the bottom of the river for centuries than to get into the Elves’s hands. So it slipped off.

Did the Elves start shooting when Isildur were still invisible? Maybe yes, maybe not, but the Calaquendi must have identified the Wannabe Ringlord without doubt. Likely they were waiting for the man to get out of the water. And they had to kill him – because otherwise he would have done everything to retrieve the Ring, as he knew exactly where he lost it.

Originally Posted by Valandil

And (by that theory - I'm not on board with it yet), the Elves sort of allow themselves the concession that there will still be a descendant of Elendil and Isildur to take the thone of Arnor, since there was still a young one under Elrond's care back in Imladris. He just wouldn't have the Ring.

Elves are good people, after all. They should have felt remorse, that’s why they constantly cared for the line of Isildur-Valandil, but not for the Gondorian line of Anarion.